More freeware content in the marketplace

Discussion Hub Aircraft
22

Good points – but at the moment X-Box users are totally locked out of the non- ms-store addons, be they Freeware or payware.

Maybe that is the cost they bear, after being able to buy the X-BoX hardware, and a below manufacturing cost, while PC users pay highly for similar hardware.

One way to see it is that X-Box users have Bought into their hardware at a low initial cost), – so maybe there is an argument fro even those FREEWARE products that are available for PC users, to be made available as low cost payware content for X-Box users, where the actual cost of the X-Box market-place purchase, is used to offset the cost to Microsoft of putting that PC Freeware product , as Payware, onto the MarketPlace.

It is a fair reality that X-Box user’s should not be able to benefit from the low Initial cost of their X-box, without paying the expected cost of needing to PURCHASE content from the Market-Place.

Whatever the solution, there should be one that is workable for all.

Not EVERYTHING in life is FREE, a good lesson learnt as one grows up from childhood into adulthood.

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23

I also lost 5 aircraft and cannot get into marketplace or F18 freebie. i was going to buy even more stuff, never happened before. What has happened to the game?

24

Our team, Got Friends, has been experimenting with the marketplace. We originally pursued releasing our Freeware including the original Discus-2c Standard on the marketplace. Although Microsoft DID NOT say NO, they DID NOT RESPOND to my request and to this day have not responded (Over 5 Months Later). This is compared to normal payware requests that usually resolve after 2-3 weeks. So there is something going on behind closed doors, but our team is still waiting patiently to hear more. I assume 99% of marketplace partners, like ourselves, are not privied to those conversations.

In the meantime we were fortunate enough to host another successful experiment. We took our most successful Freeware aircraft (Discus-2c), remastered it, added real value, and used that “amplified version” as a Premium Payware option. Microsoft responded almost instantly to that request and our glider was accepted on the marketplace for both PC and Xbox rather fast.

At the end of the day, the PC users can puchase the Premium Edition on the Marketplace or download the freeware Standard Edition on Flightsim.to. Xbox users only have the Premium option. We don’t enjoy the fact that Xbox doesn’t have a freeware alternative, however, we are happy that we found a workaround and made it available in some capacity for console players.

Hopefully console players appreciate that effort and don’t view it as a money grab. It’s honestly the exact opposite. Will we do it again? I’m not sure… the Discus-2c has been very successful on console so far but at the end of the day, we would love to see a better freeware economy that supports all projects without commission bias.

Because of this, I don’t see the DR.1 Fokker, MXA Amphibious, Vertigo, or even Savage Grravel coming to Xbox anytime soon… we aren’t too enthusiastic about taking our popular freeware projects and charging money just for Xbox owners. I guess if we have no option in the future and console players want an add-on bad enough, we can always place it on just the Xbox marketplace for the minimum price. Which I believe is $9.99 for an aircraft. Still not a great solution and we hope that the marketplace allows freeware in the future, especially from a partner like us who produce Payware and Freeware.

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25

Others have been waiting over a year for just a “Response”, and it seems that being Ignored is now an accepted way of the way that MSFS business is done these days.

A variation on

  • “Build it and they will come”

becomes

  • “Ignore it and it will go away”

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27

I fly the Vertigo, the Savage Carbon (sometimes the Grravel) and the MXA. They are all worthy payware-quality. I say put them them on the MP as payware for XBox users. If they don’t think it’s fair that PC users get it for free, I could understand, but at least they would have a choice. Maybe package the Grravel and Carbon as one product, if that’s possible - an utter steal for $10!

28

How about the PC users thinking it is “not fair” that the Xbox users were able to buy an X-Box for far below market cost, because MS were pushing the X-Box to get MS-Store sales, while they paid a lot of money (up front) for a traditional PC.

If it looks too good to be true, it probably is not so good … as one finds out once has bought an X-box, and then discover all the limitations, and that everything you want to put into it, comes with a cost.
.

You get what you pay for, and if you expect to get stuff for FREE, and don’t consider it has a value, then maybe that is exactly what you are getting – something worth very little or even Nothing.

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29

I’m not sure this angle holds up. It might make some PC users feel a little “I told you so” etc. But even whilst a quick Google search reveals yes the current iteration of the Xbox is probably cheaper than previous ones with inflation accounted for; they aren’t exactly mind bogglingly cheap either.

No one bought an Xbox X in the last two years and thought “pssst, hope MS don’t realise they’ve missed a zero off the price.shhhhhhh keep it to yourself! Nudge nudge wink wink”

They’ve always been decent value gaming rigs compared to buying gaming PC’s.

Surely we aren’t saying that despite the Xbox running any number of games, it was slipped in at a stupid price to sell only Microsoft Flight simulator (which by the way clearly wasn’t a Console release product)? And therefore the buyers should feel more than happy freeware products are being artificially held back? By that logic are users complaining all the Xbox titles have had less money spent on them, but it’s ok cos its cheap?

I might have the wrong end of the stick, and apologies if so, but it sounds like there might be a tiny bit of schadenfreude being dropped in the conversation?

30

I believe it’s simpler than some have suggested. My opinion is that the lack of freeware on Xbox has the following likely possible causes:

  1. Not a priority as more critical core Sim updates are developed
  2. No incentive (1) - offering freeware means server hosting costs with no compensation
  3. No incentive (2) - customers opting for free alternatives of payware planes instead of buying from Microsoft
31

I agree- Xbox users only get payware add-ons, while there are hundreds if not thousands of add-ons for free on flightsim.to. Like liveries, aircraft, and airports.

If only there were a way to get some if not all Flightsim.to products onto Xbox, but I am probably imagining since that would be impossible.

32

If X-Box users had access to all the FREE stuff, often made with major technical flaws, chances are the whole X-BOX server system may well go down, just because of “flakey” MSFS addons

X-Box is a CONSOLE Platform, and comes with both advantages & limitations. You pay your money, and you make your choice.

Maybe the issue is, some pay their money, before they realize what their choices and limitations are.

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33

There’s plenty of free stuff that’s better than some of the paid stuff. Nobody is expecting a free for all, but when a respected existing partner wants to put things on the marketplace MS requires them to charge a minimum price depending on the kind of content. On the other hand Asobo states that they are open to putting freeware on the marketplace and would like to encourage it. It seems the two ends of the beast just won’t cooperate.

There’s no technical limitation here. There’s already some freeware on the marketplace (I think maybe 2 things?) so it is possible, and if the content can go on for money then there’s clearly nothing wrong with the content itself.

All we are really asking for here is for Asobo to keep their promises. Your post really misses the mark.

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34

By all respect, I think i never heard so much nonsense before and this is the friendly tone.

If it is like you said, how do you explain community Mods in Snowrunner and Farming Simulator? Both games have mod support since the day of release AND both games have the option to play it together with multiplayer.
And wait for it… surprise, surprise… the Xbox server system is well and alive.

Problem is, you are gatekeeping at its best. Sounds like: “I have spent thousands of dollars for my hyper gaming PC, i can’t live with the fact, others spent not so much for a low performing console and could have access to the same sources.”
Congrats to you for your PC, but sorry to hear you can’t use it for more than playing MSFS.

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35

Flight Simulation has always been a community effort and project. This has been so for 20, soon 30 years. Basically since we’ve been able to share addon content.

There has always been freeware and payware content. Usually the payware developers have been part of the community, they have been simmers, enthusiasts. Very few developers have really made a living from it like PMDG for example or A2A later. Many did it as a side job. People knew each other, devs helped each other out it they were stuck. Even in times of P3D and XP this was still true and it was one of the reasons Dovetailgames weren’t that well appreciated in the community with their saling behaviour of throwing content at us asking us to “purchase NOW to get it real fast” etc. That’s not how the flightsim community used to work, we have been enthusiasts buying something because we saw it when others shared pictures or videos.

MSFS changed that. The huge corporation took over with a huge PR budget and brought millions of new customers in. Yes, I say customers, not enthusiasts. Then they released MSFS to XBox and it went on, even more customers, more money. Sure, from a business standpoint it was heaven for most of the old developers who barely could go on with development but it brought a huge amount of new people in who saw and still see a good way of making the quick money. You can easily release the greatest rubbish to the official marketplace and be a rich guy just by the sheer amount of customers who have never been part of the “enthusiastic community” and have no experience. All the while us “old simmers” sit there, shake our head and eventually shrug our shoulders. XBox is not a PC, it’s a fact and even if there have been a lot of progress since the WASM module it’s still limited a lot. Its hardware is the reason for many degradations we have seen in MSFS’ visuals and it’s quite obvious that the “old simmers” aren’t too happy with that. On the other side the new stream of money has enabled new innovation and there are developers out there who really understood how to leverage this new situation.

Others have decided to stay off XBox to overcome the limitations, both freeware and payware. These devs’ products will never be available to the locked ecosystem of a gaming console and that’s the payoff you have to accept if you go the cheaper way. Microsoft themselves are only interested in revenue from the sim, they won’t prioritize any freeware beside the constant world updates etc they do. And this calculation includes more attractivity of the whole sim and eventually more revenue from more customers. A freeware category allowing for example Got Friends to release their airplanes there would counteract this effort. Who would purchase a below mediocre bug festival if there was a GF Vertigo. I’m sure it won’t happen at the level people are hoping for.

36

And here we are go again: a nice elitist opinion, packed with accusations and other nonsense.

„that’s the payoff you have to accept if you go the cheaper way.“
Is this so? I have to pay the same prices for addons, plus the fact, I pay more than you.
Why? Because I already own a PC, which is capable of doing 3D applications and easily MSFS 2020, plus I bought a Series X and a 4K TV.
So why I just don’t Play it on the PC? Because I grown up, life changed and I like to play one of my favorite games of all time on a comfy couch, together with my wife and kids.

„Yes, I say customers, not enthusiasts.“
„who have never been part of the “enthusiastic community” and have no experience.“
Thanks, for your evaluation of XBox players, but like I said above, it‘s nothing more than elitist thinking, gatekeeping and complete nonsense.
I‘m a FS-Pilot since version 3.0, have the CD‘s of FS98, 2000 and 2002 still in my shelf. Same like the PMDG 373 with the VHS-tape, by the way.
I remember the times of LAGO with their superb Emma Field, have still tons of downloaded stuff from FSPlanet and Flightsim.c o m, was member of a virtual airline and you deny to be an enthusiast to me and probably other Xbox owner’s, just because at some point something in our life has changed? Really?
My guess is you think every Xbox owner you met in FS is a Fortnite kiddo
But thrust me, you see them just in F/A 18‘s bugging the hell out of the other players by doing aerobatic maneuvers above every airport.
I for myself doing in some minutes a A320neo flight from Frankfurt to Algier and now tell me again I’m not an enthusiast. Oh wait, I have forgotten, someone who is flying a 320neo can’t be an enthusiast because the plane is not study level.
Maybe I should fire up Simbrief and make another Flight in the 310 or 737…

Speaking of GotFriends, except the Optica and the last two releases, I own every addon, which is available on XBox. I absolutely love their stuff, especially the Wilga, but at the same time I experienced the downsides of being on XBox with the Discus-gliders before the 40th anniversary update.
I absolutely honor their efforts to make their free stuff available for Xbox users as well and I hope there comes the day it will happen.

On a funny side note, I saw a lot of PC pilots ranting about the 2Pilots, 4simmers etc. repaints, stating they don’t should be in the market place and how someone could be so dumb and pay for it.
Just for your info: it is at the moment the only chance for an XBox enthusiast (!!!) to generate a bit of immersion, if they won’t stay with the legacy paint jobs. It is hard enough to go without something like ProjectAI on console. But as I said, PC is just a workplace and there is no urge to sit in my free time in front of it, too.
Is it my personal decision? Yes of course!
Do I have to live with the downsides? For sure, as long as nothing changes!
Am I allowed to air my opinion, without to be called JUST a mindless customer? Tell me!

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37

I totally agree. I don’t get this “Oh no, the world will explode” attitude.

Yes, I have to fix lots of the freeware addons I download. I still would not deign to suggest that people shouldn’t have access to them on Xbox. And, technically, many of the problems I have to fix, like poorly named files that cause VFS issues and crashing could be easily searched for and even fixed programmatically if Microsoft cared at all. And some of the “fixes” I make are solely due to my OCD on perfection of cfg files. And, there are tons and tons of freeware I don’t have to fix.

Just look at tons of other titles out there with thriving freeware DLC marketplaces like Minecraft and many others. It’s absolute silliness to suggest there will be issues that will make it not worth it for users. You’d have to say the exact same thing about freeware on PC, then, too. Microsoft, despite their lack of investment in the Marketplace for years, is well aware of how to manage DLC for games.

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38

You talk about opinions and elitist stuff, defend and attack but you have interepreted what I wrote based on the building defense, you didn’t really read what I wrote.

I wrote about NEW people coming to the sim, not people coming from older sims and who changed to the console. That was your free decision despite better knowledge or believing the PR. You’re not part of the potential 9 millions of new customers who get garbage thrown at. Well, you have to deal with that content as well, but that was your educated decision.

Further you bring all that study level stuff in, I wrote about enthusiasm, not better or worse pilots or whatever you might imagine. It’s about the sim having become a huge money generator, it’s a huge business with everyone trying to max out their income, all above Microsoft. Nothing they give for free costs them anything, it’s invested in more customers hence more income. And this won’t be changed by any freeware categories as dreamed by those without f-.to access. That is the whole point, regardless of how much “elitism” you want to read into it.

What was a passionate hobby entered the huge gaming machinery. There is nothing going to change as long as MS runs it. Freeware only for those who haven’t turned into the dead end.

39

Why in the world is it I have to keep on posting this image… I just don’t get it…

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Nothing gets onto this list with the Status of “Started” without it meaning it’s going to happen.
Who knows when it will happen, but Jorg has talked about this subject several times and that he fully supports it and wants it. As I noted above, it’s not like there’s not other Microsoft Xbox games with freeware DLC.

Not to mention we also have the Scenery Gateway coming as well.

Yes, it’s been a long time coming, but it’s coming. Jorg knows how important it is for the system to be able to grow. Xbox users are now the majority of users, and still growing. Due to the cost of building high end PC’s, PC usage is falling in comparison to Console usage.

There’s a reason Microsoft chose an XBox Game Studio company to develop MSFS. I’ve been saying this since day one (died in the wool PC user speaking here).

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40

We could bet here that it will be a disappointment. Both what they’ll offer and how it will be taken by freeware devs. But I’m used to my predictions being laughed at or talked down and when they actually happen exactly as I said I’ll sit here and smile… Anyway… good luck with it.

For the marketplace procedure I’ll quote C. Makris from PMDG:

The full plane package need to be build and sent to market place. MS needs to do tests before clearing it back to us for our own testings, after these testings are complete we approve it and MS makes it public […].

Good luck with any freeware dev dealing with that theater more than once or twice.

The scenery gateway might turn out well though, depending on the quality of the system. But MS directly benefits from it as others will do “their job” for free.

41

As a freeware dev, I can’t wait until the freeware marketplace is developed and released.

Huh? Of course they do, why else would they do this? What does that even mean?
I benefit as well because of all the effort Microsoft puts into this to make this product available to me. And by sharing my work, I get to fly with other people who use my work, too. It’s a win-win for everybody. I’m going to do that work anyway to improve my experience. Why not share it with everyone?

Why such a negative attitude?

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42

It means that the scenery gateway system will increase the quality of the sim world without MS/Asobo/Gaya etc even move a finger. Well, MS needs to approve it but beside that the scenery world will become better and increase the value of the sim.

On the contrary they will only lose with any extensive freeware category. They even have to develop and provide it. Spend the same time testing and verifying as they do with payware. But there is no rule that says anyone actually purchases from the MP just because they download freeware there.

Experience

Better don’t expect anything and be positively surprised (Razbam F15) than being hyped up like everytime and then end up frustrated with the release… (pleeeenty)