OK, What's wrong with spawning where you want and using the sim as you wish?

That’s called vatsim :slight_smile:

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Exactly – Just Ignore rouge aircraft… (does not take much) as they cannot interact with your plane.

Just learn to Immerse yourself in the SIM (if that’s what you want to do) and ignore those that you do not consider to be part of your MSFS World.

That being said, it would be nice if you could just click on a Rouge player, and have them added to your personal BAN list, and never see them or their aircraft in your SIM, ever again !!

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I suppose that’s one way to look at it. If you are on short final, and you see a plane off to your left cross the hold short line, do you get annoyed that they did that but continue to land, or do you take that as an opportunity to practise a go around.

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But a lot of people don’t know about VATSIM, (or IVAO for that matter, if you’re in Europe) - I sure didn’t when I started simming again.  Maybe they know about it, but if MSFS already has a multi-player capability - why bother, 'eh?

Is it possible to enable MP via vatsism without “multi-player” turned on?  (In XP, VATSIM or IVAO are the only ways to multi-player.)

(Laughing!)
Yup - is the cup half empty or half full?

Seriously, maybe using an external MP service - even paid or donation-ware - might be the ticket for the hard-core realists.

However, even there, we need to be gentle to newcomers.  I, myself, hesitate to fly in a VATSIM/IVAO environment simply because it’s intimidating and there’s little guidance other than a :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: or two when you screw up.

Is there/can there be a sub-environment in these worlds for the less experienced simmer who wants to learn but doesn’t want the intimidation of some heavy-metal aircraft or arrogant ATC bashing him for being new?

Late to the conversation, but here is my two cents:

This is why I don’t use multiplayer. I really don’t like it when people just spawn on the runway at KLAX for example, especially when I have a flight going.

There can be 5 players at a starting point on the runway who just won’t take off, that is what is wrong about it.

But, I can’t control what they do. Users can spawn on the runway and that is their choice.

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Don’t worry.  “Late” or not, all contributions are welcome!

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Not only possible, but even strongly encouraged. Vatsim software injects the other vatsim traffic, multiplayer is preferable turned off so you don’t see non controlled traffic.

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There’s nothing ultra realistic about asking people using MP to not spawn on runways. In my opinion it is the sim itself that’s the problem: you shouldn’t be able to spawn on a runway. What I really don’t understand is why people who want to just horse around insist on doing it in MP, unless your sole aim is to annoy people.

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I would accept that if, and only if, it were a default multi-player restriction, and not enforced in single-player mode.

In fact, I think that should be a setting somewhere that allows that, as some people may have good and sufficient reason for spawning on a runway - or a body of water if you’re a seaplane.

Actually, I believe that the best solution is - for ultimate realism - is to not to use MP at all, but to use a 3rd party multi-player like VATSIM or IVAO where things are more tightly controlled.

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I’m a Vatsim guy exclusively, so I don’t have to worry about it. And if you horse around purposely on Vatsim you get tossed. People make mistakes and the Vatsim community is awesome that way, helping and encouraging people who are new users or have questions, misunderstandings, etc. But there’s really no reason why they couldn’t just have the space option as holding short of the active runway. The suggestion has been there since the 90s.

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VATSIM host FirstWings events, here’s my 2c on that:

TL;DR - VATSIM do, but it could be better. And… dive in!

My first proper VATSIM controlled experience was via an event/program driven by @CaptainAB2020. He had the great idea of persuading VATSIM controllers to participate in a complete newbie training event from KDEN to KSLC, waaaay back in Nov’21.
This was dedicated to the newbie who was terrified at the prospect of being on mic, and handling so-called fast and undecipherable ATC instructions.
It grew traction, and he got a lot of us on the wagon. Yes it was a melee on the day, yes some streamers brought a lot of their fans for the ‘ride’, but us newbies got priority.
Subsequent events learn3d from that and got much better. I’ll get to the melee part again later.

I will always be eternally thankful to CaptainAB for his efforts and getting my ‘VATSIM stripes’ - thanks, man!

Sadly that program fell away, maybe due to time pressures, maybe down to politics, maybe the will of others. Not going to speculate, maybe CaptainAB can fill us in one day.

This (at least from my perspective) rekindled VATSIM to provide FirstWings.
The idea here is to provide newbie-friendly events where the controllers expect you to be nervous, new, have mic-fright. They know you’ll be slow in hitting PTT, slow in readbacks, get them wrong, get flustered by instructions and totally fluff takeoff and approach.
And they really do do a great job in being calm and helpful. They really do, guys!

All good so far for the newbie, but being a VATSIM event, these can still be, let’s say ‘over subscribed’ by other more experienced VATSIM users who like to fly on events. I feel this is their biggest issue. Being inclusive is great, but sometimes these FirstWings events need to cater (enforce, somehow?) less for the experienced pilots and more truly for the newbie - and show that will indeed happen (I feel a lot of potential VATSIM users also get scared by the sheer quantity of other pilots, and stressed controllers on the day).

Outside of events, I always made sure I stated ‘NEW PILOT, EXPECT SLOW COMMS’ and things like that on my flightplan filing. And I feel it did make a difference to the ATC interactions.
In my experience I’ve only known 2 types of instance that will cause ATC to get irritated: 1) not knowing how to control your aircraft (alt, heading, speed); and 2) ignoring them - say ‘unable’ or ‘repeat’ or just straight up say you don’t understand as you’re new. They’ll help you out then. How, you ask? You might be vectored on a meandering route to give you both time/space to work it out.

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IMHO, if you’re going to run something like VATSIM, you should be under ATC/tower/ground control, and there might be other planes waiting to takeoff too - especially at a busy airport.

Again, IMHO, (and on the rare occasions when I run IVAO), I always start on a vacant GA parking pad.

I strongly disagree with people dissing others because of where they spawn, or how realistically they fly - especially in single player mode - but I also totally agree that in a community like VATSIM and/or IVAO, rules are necessary and if you flagrantly violate them, you get the axe, just like IRL.

Typo correction.

Totally righteous!

Unfortunately I don’t subscribe to VATSIM as I have been told by people that do both, that VATSIM primarily caters to the Western Hemisphere and that European pilots prefer IVAO.  Maybe that’s not true, I don’t know.

To be perfectly honest, there are times I believe the ATC guys are as clueless as us newbies. :wink:

I always put NEW PILOT, ENGLISH ONLY on my flight plans in IVAO too.

The only time I’ve had an issue with this was on one of my first IVAO flights with a buddy of mine out of UUMO in Russia, where on short final an ATC guy who wasn’t there before suddenly hops on the frequency and starts asking me questions.  I was already up to my ears in LANDING the blasted aircraft and I didn’t have time to (somehow), type responses and fly the plane.  I ignored him.  He got upset, but that’s his tough luck and my friend who has more reputation on IVAO even suggested he receive additional training.

When I apologized to my buddy, he said “Don’t worry, the ATC guy was wrong” and he introduced me to the “Aviate, Navigate, Communicate” rule - and that my job and responsibility at less than two minutes in short final was to get on the ground in one piece.

In my experience, and looking to https://map.vatsim.net/ I always seem to see Europe packed with pilots flying. Just have a look after 1800z tonight (inevitably, the skies will be empty tonight, making a fool of me :joy:)

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Absolutely, my friend! And that’s why I reckon an ‘unable’ is your best friend in those situations :slightly_smiling_face:

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That may be true, but I’m just going on what I’m told.

Quite frankly, and to be honest with both myself and others, I want to improve my flying skills “solo” before jumping into a more controlled environment.  Though I appreciate the fact that ATC may be nicer to inexperienced pilots, I also feel it’s just rude to jump into something like that and “ask where the throttle is” :wink: - or be totally unqualified in other respects - even at an airport that is lightly used.

That begs the question - what are good airports that have ATC, but are not right smack dab on top of insanely restricted airspaces like Moscow Russia, Chicago, LAX, (etc.) where gaffs and mistakes are less serious and I don’t go busting class C airspace because I’m a newbie flying VFR.

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Nailed it. That’s exactly the attitude of mutual respect to both yourself and others that makes a great simmer in the community.

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Turns out that VATSIM DOES have a non-trivial presence in Europe.

All I need is an airport that’s manned, but not busy and not arrogant.

Centers in the US cover a LOT of airspace with a LOT of airports, so flying out in the Mojave desert can get you some easier class delta airport action (KWJF, KPMD, KMHV, KVCV), but you still may be on a fairly busy LA Center (ZLA) frequency controlling the entirety of Southern California and Las Vegas. Or it could be broken into sectors (often is as much as it isn’t). Same with Oakland/Northern California.

For an easier fare, Salt Lake, Seattle, Denver, Minneapolis and Albuquerque Centers are usually less busy than the coasts and offer a wide range of airports and airspace. Dallas and Houston can be busy, but I usually find them accommodating and professional.

Louisville (KSDF) tower is often staffed by @stw222, and that’s a great place to do some work.

Grab VATSpy to see what controllers are on and where all the pilots are.

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