Once you go VR, you don’t go back?

Again, like others and I have said, it’s not a yes/no scenario. It’s not necessarily VR versus a pancake world (although obviously it is for some, judging by this thread, which is perfectly fine, it’s not a competition).

As I’ve said, I use both and for good reasons.

However, despite the many downsides of VR in MSFS at present (including faffing about with annoying bugs that sometimes result in giving up on occasions, or at worst a 1 in 3 attempt ratio for a successful flight without hitches, crashes, or even a workable mouse pointer showing up) VR really takes flight simming to another level. No pun intended.

I spent a very enjoyable afternoon today flying the alps in the close confines of a racing glider, ridge soaring, and was so immersed in completing a long difficult task that it was as if I was in my twenties again, yet flying in a hugely expensive sailplane that I could never afford back then (if it had even existed) in a place I could never afford to go to. As a pilot I was just there and free. It was a totally different feel to 2D, despite the hassles and lower graphic quality. Seriously, if you have not done such soaring in real life, I’m not sure you could appreciate it, I was WEARING the plane and knew exactly how it was behaving and where I was, despite the lack of G forces.

I tried part of the same course afterwards in 2D and it was (more colourful) rubbish by comparison.

Just an old man’s two cents.

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You shouldn’t and they don’t expect you to, but that’s because the Varjo is an enterprise headset and the subscription is a service contract… not uncommon at all in the business world.

I wish they would release a consumer version, but seems they aren’t interested at this time… and that’s their prerogative. Perhaps they don’t have the production capacity, perhaps they don’t want to get involved with consumer end user support. You can’t really call them greedy, they simply aren’t catering to the consumer market for now.

I’m sure we’ll see other options over the next year or two that are aimed at us, whether Varjo decide to change course or not.

For some game, like FS, skyrim, fallout etc…, after playing in VR, it is definitively too flat to go back to on monitor. On monitor, i play, on VR, i fly, just as simple as that.

Note that it’s not a matter of graphics performance for me, but of functionality – there’s not yet a fully functional EFB in VR that’s equivalent to just using an iPad with ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot, something I would be using if flying in real life and which is trivial to hook up to the simulator and use when flying with a flat monitor.

Lack of realism and detail means lack of immersion means not as fun (for me).

Those switches on the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo are also a lot less “immersive” when you can’t see them or your hands. :slight_smile:

Fumbling for controls means lack of immersion means not as fun (for me).

Of course if these things don’t bother you, you might have fun anyway with your very nice rig. But they bother me, and that’s why I don’t regularly fly in VR.

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That makes sense, thank you for the correction.

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You’re making a lot of assumptions here. I did use the Reverb G2 with Flight Simulator. Even with its 2160x2160 resolution, the ability to discern a stereoscopic difference becomes insignificant somewhere between a few and a couple dozen meters depending on the scene/object. Other visual cues take over in the brain to create a sense of depth after that. That’s why best practices for VR development have recommend not rendering objects twice if they’re more than a few meters away. It causes a performance hit with little gain for the user.

The topic really interests me as a 3D developer who has created some virtual reality environments. Flight Simulator seemed like the perfect candidate for optimizations like monoscopic far field. Imagine if all that photogrammetry that’s hundreds to thousands of meters away only has to be rendered with a single pass. And it should be relatively simple to enable an optimization like that as there’s nice separation from the aircraft and the scenery.

SkipTalbot, I am also doing some work in UE4 with VR.
Is the monoscopic rendering still in the latest versions? I am on 4.26.2 and never noticed it even though I really spent some time developing with UE4.

Let me know if you want to exchange some experiences. UE4 in VR has some pitfalls, for example with DX12 enabled it loses the d3d device when enabling VR. Things like that.

Thats interesting, does MSFS currently render everything twice to all distances? If so it gives optimism for nice VR performance gains in future :slight_smile:

In all fairness I think they’ve had somewhat mixed messaging on the matter - while they are very much positioning it as a business only headset (you have to have a registered business to even order one!), they have on the other hand sent headsets out to youtubers like vr flightsim guy who’s userbase will overwhelming be consumers… I think it’s perfectly understandable that some will misunderstand as a result.

It won’t be long until we see some new consumer based headsets that will significantly up the game though imo, so I’m not too bothered about missing out on the varjo.

Also, you don’t have to buy the subscription. You can pay the one-off “full” price (several thousand more). As I understand it, the “subscription” is really a mechanism to reduce the initial capital outlay for companies and move some of the cost out of capex and into operational budgets.

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I don’t know, but it’s sure seem like it since last I checked the frame rate was approximately half of the equivalent 2D resolution lol

Any idea why they deprecated the feature? Looks like it might have been causing crashes so they disabled it? I actually don’t work with the UE4 engine, and the last time I was working with a 3D virtual environment it was with XNA.

Yeah once you’re at cruise it’s kinda silly I’d rather monitor the flight in 2d and be able to use outside apps and such at the same time

Basically my flow is to start setting up the plane in 2d, once I’m ready to taxi I’ll go VR, stay in VR up until cruising altitude, then go 2d, put it back on for descent/approach/landing/taxi/shutdown

Yes, that’s only visual realistic but not flight realistic. So that proves what I said earlier, the difference between flight simmers and flight gamers. :thinking::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

2D - been there done that (FS9, FSX)
Now VR or I’m not flying:)

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If you don’t mind visuals, you wouldn’t be flying MSFS until 2 years from now … so you think you are superior for being a simmer but you are a gamer that is here for visual candy.

And VR is not only about visuals, its about spatial awareness, real head movements, soon real hand movements, etc

You learn where they are very quickly. I can operate any of my peripherals easily without removing my headset. A bit like a blind person does, you adapt.

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And fumble.

Are you saying blind folks just fumble??

Does a RL pilot always have to look at the objects he’s manipulating? I can imagine him keeping his eyes on the horizon line while reaching for the trim wheel, the flaps lever, gear lever. Is he fumbling? I think he uses his muscle memory more often than not once he is familiar with his cockpit layout.

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