Phantom battery current and weird electrical system behaviour

WHERE !!! Are you saying one can include a battery resistance in the battery simulation , so that battery voltage drops from it current voltage, when a current is drawn, and then returns, to the new discharged voltage, when the current (ie : starter motor) is turned off ???

Also, are MAGNETO’s simulated – ? (Note: Magneto is not an Alternator)

In the C152, the battery is set at 40.0 Ω
Yes, sort of. In the C152 all I did was turn on the batteries, the mags and hit start for 10 seconds - it starts at 25.4V & 13.60 Ah
image
No, it doesn’t drop while the starter is spinning, it only shows the recovered value.

A magnetos IS a type of alternator - isn’t the differentiation that the magnet is used rather than the magnetic field used in the alternator? I am not sure what you are hoping to get as an answer - of course the magneto is included in the sim. When looking at the engines.cfg they are labelled magnetos, when looking at systems.cfg, they have labelled them alternators.

It seems to me the real question is alternators, as AC => rectifier does not seem to be modelled.

You lost me on this 1st line … but if you are happy with all this, so am I.

I am so NOT Understanding all this stuff :wink:

BTW" The diodes are part of the internals in a Alternator (and can fail )

alternator-1

Also, relevant, for a proper battery Simulation

Battery_Internal_resistance

Internal-resistance-vs-Charge

OK I have to admit I made a mistake there, I was misreading the entries.
I can only claim old age … the calculation actually gave 40.0Ω
I have corrected it …

BTW" The diodes are part of the internals in a Alternator (and can fail )

Yep - I was a motorcycle mechanic for years, rectifiers are annoying things when they go wrong lol

If you turn on dev mode, you can go and look at all those lovely figures …
=> Windows
=> Behaviors
=> Systems tab
=> Show electrical system debug
=> Components Overview tab

You and me too !!!

But what I do remember (and checked with research)

If you are talking Battery Internal Resistance (for a 24v 18AH GA Plane Battery), you are looking more at 0,02 Ohms

ie starter motor current, is say 200 amps . Battery Voltage drop due to Internal Resistance is

(200 * 0.02) = 4 Volts, so battery will drop its terminal voltage by 4 volts, making it 24 - 4 = 20 Volts (while the 200 amps is being drawn)

This Internal resistance, or a fully charge battery, is defined by its CGA (Cold Cranking Amps)

CGA is defined as the Current draw on a fully charge battery, that will reduce its Terminal voltage to a specif percentage of its Full Changed, no load voltage.

I had to guess (yes, I hated it!) and use the current calculator here, and input the current drop from the alternator (70.0 to 53 or 54 I think).

The figures are hard to get, as I had to discharge the battery, then watch the current in and out … I may have got them wrong, but once charged to full capacity, a newish car battery should give close to 0.2Ω resistance, yes - but that wouldn’t that be a 12v?

I was expecting more like 4Ω if discharged a lot and revs high, but as I can’t use the normal voltage drop test the current calculation is ambiguous at best, if not worthless. I’ll take another look at it tomorrow.

As it gets older and more used, that will begin to rise - though I have no idea how high it will get before needing to be replaced as I couldn’t find anything on that in the C152 manuals. Mortorbike batteries tend to go as high as .08Ω at low temps.

Not sure you are understanding the difference between an Alternator and a Magneto. The Magneto’s do not contribute to or form part of the main electrical system and are purely for ignition only. Completely un-related to this discussion.

The magneto generates DC electricty - in aircraft it sends to the spark plugs.

As I said for ignition. Nothing to do with the ships main electrical generation/storage system so un-related to this topic. Alternator or Generator yes indeed.

Why are you still going on about this? It was mentioned once in passing, when someone asked if magnetos were modelled … and once again a magneto IS a type of alternator.

This is patently incorrect. The most you could say is that they are both electro-mechanical devices.
An ALTernator produces continuous low voltage(relatively), high amperage(relatively) ALTernating current, whereas a magneto produces pulses of high voltage, low amperage DC (direct current).

Pulses of DC is sorta AC, just sayin’ :wink:

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Despite @LockedFir76798 suggesting I’m going on about something that I last commented on 9 days being laughable, I stated fact. The magnetos have nothing to do with the aircraft electrical generation system and are completely irrelevant to this discussion. They are self contained units with the sole purpose of producing the required ignition spark. They contribute nothing to the ships electrical power so hence irrelevant to this discussion.

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Yes, I suggest it because it was never included in this discussion, you have discussed it four times more than we did when we mentioned it in passing once many weeks ago - and we never SAID they contributed to the “ships” electrical power

It does not matter WHEN you mentioned it, I only come on here every week or so. SO I won’t see your posts for a week or more. Should we all never reply to things older than 2 days?

For the last (hopefully) time, NO ONE SAID they were generating electricity. Someone simply asked “£are they modelled” and I said “yes”. Please, just get over it. Anything you say about it is just repeating yourself, and continuing this.

Guys, let us try to stay friendly and on-topic.

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