That would have to be the best one liner ever mate!!!
"I am not a 737 driver…"
“I’m not a BAe146 driver…”
In the 737 the control surfaces are mechanically linked to the control column via actual cables. You can see these cables in the wheel well.
Unlike in the a320, the 737 has reversible flight controls when there’s no hydraulic pressure. That’s why it doesn’t need a RAT. In case of manual reversion (LOSS OF SYSTEM A AND SYSTEM B) the controls will be very hard to actuate and hand flying can become a two person job (one flies and the other one assists with elevator trim). Spoilers will not work so roll rate will be reduced. It’s a lot of fun to practice this in the sim. You’ll often see pilots literally hugging the control column and using all upper body strength to fly instead of just one hand like when all hydraulics work normally.
Note that what you had is a “loss of thrust on both engines” not a manual reversion. Wind-milling engines provide enough hydraulic pressure to operate the flight controls.
I hope you’re practising these things while using the QRH.
The checklists you want is “7.6 Loss of thrust on both engines”. It has memory items.
If you’re practicing manual reversion the checklist you want is “13.12 MANUAL REVERSION ( ) or LOSS OF SYSTEM A AND SYSTEM B ( )”. This one does not have memory items.
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Wow where did you find the picture of the rear panel of my computer? 
That´s why I am not changing my 550w PSU (the only one I could get during the Covid era) for a stronger one when buying a graphics card…
Joke aside.
Poor poor PMDG… so this is what they need to re-create now in 3D after announcing to “update the wheel housing”. I wonder if they really try to do this, it is way more easy to reposition these two misaligned foot rest bolts that are clipping into the side panel left of the rudder pedal to make the cockpit perfect.
And these Boeing 737 details are very interesting, thank you for the interesting facts and infos!
A YouTuber called “Mentour Pilot” always showed some interesting 737 facts too in older videos.
Thanks for these interesting details and the good wheel well picture - wow fare dodgers must not have mechanophobia before crawling in there.
The 737 is the last airliner that is using cables to move the ailerons, but I am sure it is impossible to move the elevator with muscles alone. I guess trimming is the only solution to ascent or descent. Moving the yoke with muscle power is just like in these old airplane adventure (or airplane catastrophe) movies when the pilot is yelling “pull! help me pulling!” and both pilot and copilot try to pull the steering column back…
No but I have read this to get the most important basic knowledge about hydraulics and electrics before simulating a double birdstrike on my Fenix Airbus:
https://www.aviationmatters.co/airbus-a320-ram-air-turbine-rat-a-pilots-guide/
To see how realistic the electric and hydraulics systems are modelled. The lower ECAM will fail when both generator discs stop, but it is possible to exchange the navigation screen with the lower ECAM screen to observe what exactly the electrics and the hydraulics will to when both engines fail.
Unfortunately the 737 has not several system status screens showing data about electrics and hydraulics pressure temperature and more.
That´s why this is only possible with the Airbus.
The engines are not windmilling after a birdstrike because destruction of an N1 fan blade is simulated and N1 stops with extreme vibrations after three seconds while the engine core keeps running for half a minute before flame-out.
There is one problem with letting the engines windmill. Emergency landings should be as slow as possible, and after jettison all the fuel (if this is possible in a 737 or A320 I don´t know yet) the hydraulics power is lost in the most critical phase, when doing the last seconds of the landing with 120 - 135 knots depending on the zero fuel weight of the plane.
A RAT stops below 100 knots so having a rat seems to be a little bit more on the safer side. 
By the way… I hope after the next patch emergency landings on water will no longer count as “crash” immediately after touching the water smoooooooth and slow…
On the other hand I am not really sure if doing an emergency landing on water is safe all the time! The engine nacelles might get ripped of, and if a wing breaks the aircraft no longer swims but capsizes during landing which might lead to no longer being able to open the doors.
Was Sullys airplane being checked closely after landing in the Hudson?
Was there a risk of a wing being ripped off? Or is an airplane always hydroplaning when landing on water?
Sorry for my earlier response. Having re-read it, it didn’t come across too well.
Thanks for the info on the update.
1 Like
No worries.
BTW, there’s a new update to the PMDG 737-700 this afternoon. Mostly cosmetic and texturing fixes. Took a bit longer to recompile on first load for me today but I also opted into the SU10 Beta.
I haven 't made a full flight yet but the plane loads in and seems to be working - and overall sim framerates seem to be back to pre-SU9 levels.
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are you on DX11 or DX12?
DX11 gives better results always, DX12 Beta is terrible, at least with my experiences.
heard the SU10 will bring DX12 / DLSS
DX11 for me - I’ve never tried DX12 for any length of time in the sim.
You can send your money to the PMDG boys, they fixed the xbox controller rudder input in today’s update 
3 Likes
i updated it today, but cant find the changelog on the website
would love to see the changes made.
Change List for 3.00.0025
0011293: [General - Documentation] Incorrect Switch illustrated for TO/GA (hvanrensburg)
0011420: [General - Unsure] Cockpit control knobs not working with mouse correctly when using PMDG mouse interaction (hvanrensburg)
0011476: [Main Panel - MCP] HDG SEL and LNAV buttons illuminated at the same time (emvaos)
0011208: [FMS/AFDS - LNAV] Holding Entry when within 3 minutes ETA from fix (emvaos)
0011532: [General - Documentation] Typo error in the tutorial (hvanrensburg)
0011481: [External Model - Geometry] Seats textures issues after 3.00.0024 update (jbrown)
0011311: [General - Unsure] Paintkit: Right side overwing exit gray outline is missing (jbrown)
0011539: [Systems - Lighting - Exterior] Beacon reflection in Engine inlet (jbrown)
0011525: [AFDS - General] Dual channel approach nose up trim magnutude at 400ftRA needs adjustment (emvaos)
0011303: [AFDS - Roll Modes] Non-damping Left/Right roll excursions in cruise (emvaos)
0011506: [FMS - Route/Legs Pages] RWY Dashed Lines should not be present without departure airport entered (emvaos)
0011415: [FMS/AFDS - VNAV] SPD INTV should result in FMC SPD FMA not MCP SPD (emvaos)
0011516: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Cabin can be seen from VC on specific position (jbrown)
0011288: [General - Flight Model] Rudder operation with XBOX controller not possible (rsrandazzo)
0011355: [Systems - Wheels & Brakes] Nosewheel Animation and Aircraft turning behavior not in sync with Rudder pedal steering (rsrandazzo)
0011350: [Systems - Wheels & Brakes] Move tiller steering input to new (SU9) Nose Wheel Steering input (rsrandazzo)
0011521: [External Model - Geometry] Floating bolts/nuts in nose gear bay (jbrown)
0011518: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Speed Brake Handle Textures are Blurry (vscimone)
0011494: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Inside of stab trim cutout guards should be red (vscimone)
0011503: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Rudder trim off flag missing (vscimone)
0011514: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Oxy. Press. needle does not illuminate with overhead backlighting (vscimone)
0011499: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Placard missing from back of jump seat (vscimone)
0011488: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] ‘ENGINE START’ missing from overhead panel (vscimone)
0011486: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Space missing between R and WIPER (vscimone)
0011490: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Floating decal text on fuel control levers (vscimone)
0011491: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Engine 2 fire handle floats when pulled (vscimone)
0011492: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Glareshield document holder lacks visible bottom (vscimone)
0011496: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Text remnant to the right of “AILERON” (vscimone)
0011498: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Dots missing from crew oxygen pressure gauge (vscimone)
0011493: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Lines missing from cabin pressure gauge (vscimone)
0011487: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] ‘NORMAL’ missing from overhead panel temp control panel (vscimone)
0011501: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Pass oxygen guard should be safety wired (vscimone)
0011497: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] + missing from cargo fire panel (vscimone)
0011505: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] AO spots on ACP panels (vscimone)
0011495: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Text on yoke is crooked (vscimone)
0011483: [Virtual Cockpit - Geometry/Textures] Aux Fuel Panel shows pasrt of the Nose Wheel Steering Panel on BBJ (vscimone)
0011446: [External Model - Liveries] Injestion Warning Decal (jbrown)
0011447: [External Model - Liveries] Gaps in Left Side Injestion Waring Line (jbrown)
0011434: [External Model - Liveries] Texture Mapping. Element Moves Depending on viewing Angle (jbrown)0011521: [External Model - Geometry] Floating bolts/nuts
2 Likes
Cheers for the update will certainly need to now 
The announcement of an update is always accompanied by a pinned post in the General section of the PMDG Forums. Here’s the direct link to today’s post:
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One thing is the elevator and a different thing is the horizontal stabilizer. When you trim, the whole stabilizer pivots. When you push or pull the control column, you’re only moving the elevator which, with or without hydraulic power, does not provide enough authority across the whole speed range of the airplane. With or without hydraulics, you always need to trim.
The 737 does not have EICAS but it does have annunciator lights that we use to troubleshoot the airplane. We know exactly what is happening by associating master cautions, lights and indications. Additionally, for every light there’s an associated QRH checklist that will state the affected systems and rule out possible misinterpretations. Synoptics are nice but they’re not the only way to state a malfunction.
Why do you say emergency landings should be as slow as possible? That’s not how it works. When you lose hydraulics you land with Flaps 15 and you land at the correct airspeed. There’s no need to jettison fuel in the 737 because an overweight landing is really not an issue.
I’ve had a few birdstrikes. They’re usually not so dramatic. Most of the times the bird smashes into the cold flow of the engine and the engine keeps working. Of course we will land and the airplane will be grounded until an engineer conducts a birdstrike inspection. An engine failure is really not a huge deal in these airplanes. We do it so frequently in the sim that it’s almost a routine thing. Of course I haven’t experienced it in the real airplane and I’m sure my stress levels would be a lot higher than in the sim but as during other malfunctions I’ve had in the real airplane, for most of us, training kicks in and it’s usually just another day at work. That’s why we train.
Very very few emergencies in these airplanes are “dramatic”. If something happens we will read some checklists and fly the airplane accordingly. Outside of the scope of the emergencies that the QRH covers there’s another side of things we call “survival” training. That’s where your catastrophic fires and dual engine failures are. Those are the only situations where we need to land “as soon as possible”. All other emergencies do not require a landing as soon as possible, but a landing at “the nearest suitable airport”. We also train on those things as much as possible but of course, it’s just about surviving. Hydraulic problems are not survival emergencies.
8 Likes
So after a dual engine failure, you’re attempting to jettison fuel before landing? If that’s the case, may I quietly suggest that you’re already past a place where any real world practices and procedures are applicable.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t fly like this, MSFS should be fun and anyone can use it however one likes. However discussing detailed technical items, whilst completely ignoring real world procedures and making up one’s own processes, seems contradictory. Eg, how can one be critical of the hydraulic simulation during a dual engine failure, when the correct QRH actions are completely ignored?
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After opting into the SU10 Beta, then updating the PMDG 737 through the Ops Center, I made a ~40 minute flight late this afternoon from KATL to KBNA, landing shortly before sunset. Sim weather matched real-world weather REMARKABLY well including the line of thick, gusty thunderstorms starting about the time I turned onto a 7 mile final landing north on RWY 02C. I had the field in sight before minimums but decided to let the AP take things down to about 400’ or so. However, about 475’ AGL, the plane hit a good gust and the AP disconnected. Fortunately there was no wind shear and landing manually was not a problem.
Everything on the plane seemed to be working fine though of course I didn’t dig too deeply into things on 40 minute flight. I did have some odd connection issues with AviaCDU and my iPad, but that may have been a coincidence.
6 Likes
Has the fuel burn during pause been fixed? Kinda killing the enjoyment for me, the dependency to be around the PC at my TOD has ruined a number of flights.
That´s because I don´t care very much about real-life airline piloting procedures (I am a GA and sailplane pilot) and my whole interest in airliners is about the technical features, systems, functionality, technical aspects and devices and systems build into an airplane.
How the engines work, the flight dynamics, flight behaviour… the hydraulics and electric systems, how the engine looks from the inside how the starter and generator looks like, how the heating system and the packs are build in… stuff like that… and everything should come together in an absolute flawless and beautyful fully functional study-level cockpit.
Let´s say I am more the mechanics and flight engineer type of simmer not the checklist, ATC, and correct-procedures simmer.
That´s why I don´t care very much about correct procedures during emergency landings.
I almost never do things like that in the Flight Sim 20, but after buying an expensive first real study-level airliner with correct accurate electric circuits and fully simulated hydraulics and pneumatics and stuff I wanted to see if the aircraft is behaving accordingly to the real thing:
What electrical systems will fail, what electrical busses are driven by the RAT, what is fully functional or only partially functional and what hydraulics line is the RAT hydraulics pump driving with how much pressure, what screens and systems will fail when different electric circuits and busses fail?
Stuff like that catches my interest, the functionality and systems of an airliner, and what exactly happens from a pure technical point of view when emergencies occur like double engine failures and other things.
(Hm if you want to know the truth I don´t fly airliners by procedures and by the book, I fly them like I do with a GA plane or if it was my personal private Boeing or Airbus - mostly handflying, and pressing V to find some nice airport on the VFR map and land it per hand.)
Less pilot, more mechanic or engineer ;D
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Running into an odd issue with the PMDG. Needed to be away from the PC for a bit, so though I’d put the plane into a hold rather than pause the sim. Got in the hold fine, but when I came back and pressed the EXIT HOLD button on the FMC, the the sim went into some kind of pause function with no way to unpause it. I could look around with the mouse, use the drone camera etc, but the plane was frozen in mid air. I couldn’t interact with any controls. Hitting ESC took me to the menu and I could return to the main menu - this was basically all I could do.
I thought that was weird, so tried it again and exactly the same thing happened.
Has anyone else found this at all?
I’ve not updated yet to 3.0.25 - just realised that update was there when I came to this forum this morning, so will do that now, but not seeing anything in the fix log that would seem to help here.
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Yeah but that doesn’t mean that improvising is more fun than knowing how to operate the airplane both in normal and abnormal scenarios.
If you have an failure and the thing you’re thinking about is “Oh, I need to fly the approach as slow as possible” it only means that you’re not reaching the goal that you say you have, which is to understand how the airplane’s systems work.
When you lose an engine, you will fly a F15 landing. This is because coming from a F30 or F40 landing, you wouldn’t have enough thrust during a go around. So we land F15 and go around with F1 during engine failure.
Things like this one are what you learn by working with the QRH. I do the routine flying in the real airplane. I would never do a 3 hour standard flight in the sim because nobody is paying me and because I already did that during the decades that I used the sim before becoming a pilot IRL. I do, though, use the sim probably like you. I fly short routes. I experiment with the failures to stay current on the QRH. I observe how systems fail, report the differences to PMDG, observe with more time available than I would have in the full flight simulator. But I always fly the airplane like it’s intended to be flown. The 737 does not jettison fuel. There’s a reason for that and it’s written in the FCOM.
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