Premium joystick recommendations (Gladiator, Warthog, Turtle Beach, Logitech, ...)

User Support Hub Hardware & Peripherals
21

I am currently looking at the Virpil Constellation Alpha Prime with the WarBRD-D base. Those would be about 500€/$530 including shipping. This combo should be a step up from the Gladiator which is ‘only’ 250€/$265, shouldn’t it. I read though that the Virpil stick isn’t as ergonomic as the gladiator (buttons are a little bit harder to reach) but I guess that depends on how big/small your hand is. On their webpage they give for the base only 4 stars in the helicopter category and 5 stars in the spaceship category. Does this have to do with the stiffness of the springs that the base is less suited for helicopters?

Then there is also the VKB Gunfighter which comes at 650€/$688. It has less plastic but I’ve heard people say that 90% of the time you wouldn’t feel a difference between this and the Gladiator despite being almost 3 times as expensive. It has more buttons on the stick (none on the base). It is also a bit taller than the Gladiator which also makes a big difference to me as I’m not going to mount it (so it should be less suited for tabletop).

So many options but I think the Gladiator is the best option for me in the end in terms of price point and quality. It has multiple hat switched but only one momentary button on the top of the sick. Idealy it would have more buttons (Push-to-talk, autopilot disconnect, trim release, cyclic trim, hover mode, view reset, …).

Just out of curiosity. As a right-hander would you go for the right-hand version or for the left-hand version? With the T16k I have right now I removed the hand rest so my stick can be operated with either the left or the right hand. Most of the time I use it with the left hand and use the mouse with the right hand.

22

The VKB Gladiator is a solid choice.

It is far superior to anything made by Thrustmaster, Logitech or Turtle Beach thanks largely to the gimbal design but also the build quality and software.

All the other brands mentioned use a cheap plastic ball and socket gimbal, even in the expensive sticks like the X56 or Warthog. The gimbal in the Gladiator uses cams working on pincer jaws with adjustable spring weights and independent adjustable damping via dry clutches. From the minute you touch it the flying feel, smoothness, sensitivity and precision are very clearly far better than the ball and socket gimbal products.

The materials used are very good quality, and the electronics are far sturdier than the hair-thin wires, poor sensors and lack of adaptability you’ll find in the mass-market products. It is designed and intended for the user to be able to open it up and add / change configuration.

VKB’s software is another positive - the configuration tool takes a little getting used to (loads of YouTube guides are available) but once mastered it is simple and intuitive, and offers lots of options for calibration, curves and general setup, including changing how the buttons work and the LED’s react.

Over the years I have had a Hotas X, T16000M and X56, all of which were frankly rubbish compared to the Gladiator. I used the VKB stick for over 1,000 flying hours in MSFS, and after that time it still looks and feels as good as new.

I had the means and opportunity to upgrade it around a year ago. A friend of mine has the Virpil Constellation Alpha and Mongoose base, which he let me borrow and try out for a time. The build quality and the action in use of the buttons and axes do feel better than the Gladiator, as you would expect.

To compare side by side with the Gladiator and the Virpil combo, I bought a VKB MCGU grip and Gunfighter IV base, along with the 100mm and 200mm grip extensions, with the intention of returning or selling it on if I didn’t think it was an improvement or worth the upgrade over the others. I kept the VKB combo.

Anyone who claims the difference can’t be felt or isn’t worth the cost has clearly not done a side by side comparison. The MCGU / Gunfighter IV combination felt superior to the Gladiator and the Virpil stick to me in every way - the action of the gimbal is much smoother and more precise, and the adjustment available from the spring weights and dampers make it feel absolutely perfect in the hand, and like a genuine aircraft part as opposed to a game controller. The buttons and hats are very noticeably much nicer than the other two as well - smoother but also more positive and solid feeling.

In short, the VKB Gladiator is a huge improvement over the mass-market products from Logitech, Thrustmaster or Turtle Beach, and stands out at it’s price point as being the entry-level to high-end controls.
If you’re prepared to invest a bit more and want a step up from the Gladiator, the Gunfighter base and MCG or MCGU grip is noticeably much better in every way.

23

yep, 100% of the reviews I have seen and read have been very positive. I have not made the purchase yet, but I have been strongly considering it for a self Christmas present. :grinning:

24

The new TM Ava base paired with a warthog or viper stick would have something to say about that. But generally agree though that those brands are more aimed at mass market and if you want sone thing a bit special you have to go niche market.

25

I still couldn’t decide what route to go. I am currently weighting between two choices:

  • Gladiator + STECS Throttle
  • Gunfighter MK4 MCG Pro

I would get more out of my money from the Gladiator+Throttle option. I’m also considering that I will use the Stick for tabletop simming only. The Gunfighter might be too tall. But what gets me thinking is that I read that the Gladiator is more suited to space flying. It has linear resistance that is not very realistic for atmospheric flights. On the other hand, the Gunfighter has a wider variety of cams that are more suited to MSFS because they give increasing resistance the further away from the centre your joystick is.

What do you think?

26

Having looked at the reviews and comparisons featuring the Thrustmaster AVA, I would have to disagree.

It still looks very plasticky, dated and cheap, and the critical joint between the grip and base is still plastic. You can’t double up the springs and therefore can’t use it with an extension, which would probably break the plastic parts anyway.

There is no damping and therefore an embarrassing wobble to the whole thing in use, just not remotely comparable to the adjustable dry-clutch damping that VKB offer, even in the entry-level Gladiator. It also lacks the dedicated calibration and configuration software for ultra fine control as offered by other makers, and I would not be satisfied to rely on TM customer support for backup.

If I have a question about how to set up or change something in software or hardware on a VKB product, I can ask on here or in the VKB forum and have an answer in minutes.

The AVA base, warthog grip and baseplate together cost almost the same as the VKB Gunfighter IV base and MCGU grip, which is just nuts. If you opted for the MCG or SCG grip on the Gunfighter base, the VKB would be less expensive.

I haven’t been able to find any specific comparison videos, and there is probably a good reason for that - if you put them side by side, I doubt there would be much comparison at all. This is a good as any though: https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ZFRZx4PNM-U

27

Yeah I saw that video. Thanks.

I went with the Gladiator Premium and the VKB standard throttle.

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28

The Gladiator and any of the STECS throttles does indeed get you a lot of quality controls for a decent price - they also have black friday deals currently available on the throttles in the online stores.

The Gunfighter base with MCG grip is 280mm tall, the Gladiator NXT Evo with the SCG (standard) grip is 240mm. Only you can really decide what height is acceptable for you.

By comparison, the Thrustmaster t16000m is almost exactly the same height as the Gladiator (it is not comparable in any other way) and the AVA base with Hornet grip is considerably taller than any of the others at 340mm.

I flew with a Gladiator for over 1,000 hours in MSFS and have flown IRL as well. Thanks to the damping, it feels realistic enough for flying both GA and airliners - the former because you generally only use pretty small movements of the stick or yoke for the majority of the time, and the latter because FBW means the feel of the stick or yoke doesn’t change much.

It does have a more positive centring action thanks to it’s gimbal design compared to a cams gimbal, but the springs and damping do offer a range of adjustment so it can be tailored more to your liking.

The Gunfighter base will feel different. It is very smooth and precise, and the swappable cams, improved dampers and wider range of spring weights mean the range of adjustment to the feel and action is much wider.

With adaptable and portable home sim controllers, there will always be compromises, just like there are in aircraft, cars and anything else. If you want a joystick to actually feel like the controls of a real aircraft, then you need one with an extension to mimic the throw and sensitivity of the real thing, which only the GF / MCG Pro can do from your list. This is incompatible with your need to have it on the desktop rather than on something like the VKB UCM-L mount though, so you need to determine what you can accept.

29

That’s a superb choice, and leagues ahead of any of the more mass-market gear.

30

Not tried it myself just pointing out that it’s an updraft on the warthog base so would have to be considered. There’s still plenty of plastic on the VKB too. I’m always wary of listening to reviews until I’ve tried it myself. I have the TM stick and it’s a quality bit of gear. It’s their bases that let them down and the reason I upgraded to better. The good thing is they share the same interface as Virpil which is metal by the way so you can use that stick on a high quality Virpil base with whatever extension you want. I don’t use mine currently because I have a full Virpil setup for my stick.

31

You will not be disappointed I am sure. I use VKB’s EVO Gladiator and omnithrottle (bought for Elite Dangerous) and find them very acceptable in MSFS - so much so that my Honeycomb A and B are in the spare room under dust covers, as is my Virpil Alpha. (Just for space and setting-up considerations for casual flying - they get used when I have lots of time to spare for simming.)

32

VKB controllers works great in MSFS 2020. Best I’v ever had. HOWEVER, in MSFS2024 using VKB software to make virtual controllers (If you have more than one), the sim cannot distinguish between them. Consider getting the VKB HID controller for an additioan $15 so they are physically separate controllers.

33

I’m sorry but this makes no sense to me. The HID controller is used to allow optional modules such as the THQ and SEM to be used standalone rather than attached to an EVO. The EVO does not HAVE to use virtual controllers, it can appear as a single controller with 128 buttons. Swapping between virtual and single controllers is as simple as loading the appropriate profile using VKBDevCfg - takes about 10 seconds.

34

It definitely takes a lot more than 10 seconds. I went through a lengthy setup-process with support from the VKB-Forum to change my Gladiator (Standard-Grip) with THQ Combo.
Problem is, that in standard configuration the hat switch is configured as axis (because the premium grip has an analog hat) and that in combination with a THQ sums up to 9 axis (MS can only handle 8 axis per controller).
I was finally able to remove the analog axis of the hat switch and instead put the 9th axis onto the first controller, but it involved a lot of steps to finally get it done.
Have a look at the forum post over there, if you want to read into it (ignore the first two posts, I took over an existing thread): VKB-Forum Thread

Oh and by the way… that was in no way a problem on the side of VKB. MSFS24 f*d up controller assignments in a completely new and incompetent way. Both (virtual) controllers show up with the same name in MSFS24 and somehow someone decided that when you map something on the second controller it has to overwrite the setting of the first controller, because “same name, ding dong, no I won’t check if it’s the same controller or has a different system id”. Duh… Oh, btw: Worked in MSFS2020…

  • mo -

Oh and if anyone is reading this: There is a bug in the current firmware for the Gladiator-THQ-Combo (V 2.18.9). Use 2.18.4 instead. Thread about the bug and firmware download

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35

I received my Gladiator/STECS combo yesterday. As others have said, the Gladiator is a step up from the T16k but not by a big margin. I immediately noticed that the Gladiator is more sensitive in the center, the mini throttle is very smooth and the customizability is great. The center spot is still very noticable though. Less than with the T16k, but still very noticable. Maybe I need to tinker more with the springs/dampers (I’m currently using the 10s) or maybe I was expecting too much. Also my stick has a big bubble in one of the buttons on the base. While the button can still be pressed and triggered it doesn’t feel right when pressing it and I am quite surprised that this cleared quality control.

Overall the STECS is great though. It is my first throttle with real detends and I’m loving that. And they are fully customizable. However if I don’t tighten up the throttle axis pretty much all the way, gravity will pull the throttle foreward as soon as I put it at about 75%. It’s just too top heavy. I now have adjusted the tightness so that the throttle doesn’t just fall down but it still creaps foreward when my hand is not on it. The throttle is still very smooth and does not stick but for me this is too tight and I feel my muscles hurting after a while. And the the throttle doesn’t stay put on the table because of the force that is necessary to move the throttle. That was not expected. But hey, I was warned that using this in a desktop setup would not be optimal :slight_smile:

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36

Virpil seems pretty backed up as far as orders go. I put an order in for an Alpha Prime R/Warbrd D base, a CM3 throttle and an additional control panel 3. All of them are back ordered. It looks like a 4 to 8 week wait according their support, so I’m figuring it is going to mid to late January 2025 for delivery at best. I decided to go with Virpil gear, because it looks well-built and, hopefully, will be reliable. It helped that I had a discount code from them from their yoke kickstarter that gave an additional discount stacked on top of their Black Friday sale. It was still pretty expensive and the Canadian dollar being in the crapper against the US dollar didn’t help.

37

This is quite normal for Virpil they do have some things in stock at times but they are often sold out on others. Rest assured they have a regular production going and are continually fulfilling orders albeit with a bit of a wait. Well worth the wait though.

38

I do think it is kind of odd that a company in business for almost 10 years wouldn’t have a steady supply of units built and ready for shipment; however, considering the cost, I also figure the market for the gear they put out is relatively small so building the stuff as orders come in might save them a lot in inventory overhead. Right now, I’m just using an old TM flight stick X, so this Virpil gear is a massive jump in level and learning curve. Could have gone cheaper, but I figure if I have to spend money on stick after stick just to end up in the same place at the end, I might as well just bite the bullet and get something that will last right from the start. About the only thing I missing going the Virpil route is FFB.

I thought about getting the CLS60 and Moza FFB gear, but I started thinking that it is going to be a big enough learning curve even without throwing FFB into the mix. I’m probably going to miss it though, because I really think the biggest advantage of FFB is being able to get feedback while trimming the “airplane”. Trying to trim with the flight stick digital buttons is pretty well useless.

39

On the higher end gear they tend to have adjustments and/or stronger string action so even though it’s not the same as FFB you should still feel the need to trim else your arm will start to feel it.

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40

Ok I take back the good feedback I said about Winwing :rage:

They just cancelled my 2 months old “A320 EFIS modules” preorder because they sent me an email today with telling me I have only 3 hours (instead of 48h usually) to actually process my paiement.

2 months that I waited this email and of course having an job I can’t check my email every hour, so I missed the opportunity.

So their products can be good, but here you have China customer service…
That’s not how you treat your fellow supporters.

Avoid ! :rage:

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