PSA: Reverb G2 small sweet spots, observations and solutions

After reading this thread, as well as some other tests I’ve been doing, I now think a new prescription will probably not help me with my perceived bluriness inside of my G2s. That said, it’s been so very long, and when these things change slowly, you have a way of not noticing them, so I think I’m gonna get checked anyway, and either get whatever script they end up writing, or go with the scriptless if for no other reason than to protect my lenses from scratches.

When it comes to the IPD distance (which I currently do not know), are there any tips when it comes to setting it manually, which is what the G2s both offer and require? What visual cues should I be looking for to know I’m at least in the ballpark? I’ll have the dr measure them, and even before that I’ll see if we have a ruler around here or even buy one if not so I can get something more scientific than “I have no idea”, but I thought just jumping in and setting it in realtime might be at least somewhat helpful, but like I said, I don’t know what I’m looking for.

TIA for any assistance!

This forum is full of some really smart people.

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There are lots of articles on the Internet about determining interpupillary distance (IPD). Here’s one from the Road To VR site. The article is intriguing as it suggests first using the recent iPhone/iPad front-facing TrueDepth camera system and a free app called EyeMeasure as well as a host of other methods as alternatives. I’ll have to see if I can talk my wife into installing the app on her iPhone XS Max to get my IPD!

How to Measure Your IPD for VR Headsets and Why It’s Important (roadtovr.com)

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I only use “daily lenses” (the ones you throw away after one-time use). In real life they turn out like 20/20 vision, same as my glasses. In VR it makes a big difference for me.

But apart from the the clarity what annoys me most are the “world scale” issues I’m getting while wearing contacts/glasses. I always contributed it to some OpenVR/WMR bug, but I’m not entirely sure that’s the case anymore. (There are bugs with world scale and OpenVR/WMR but maybe the main contributor here actually are optics).

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When I was reading the article on determining IPD that I cite in my post just above yours to which I’m referring here, I was struck by the author’s comment that not getting the IPD right for one’s VR headset might have an effect on perceived visual scale:

Since we always see the real world from the perspective of our own IPD, correct alignment in a headset is important for matching our ingrained sense of 3D depth and scale. If the IPD of your headset is incorrectly set, the scale of the virtual world will appear to be slightly incorrect.

Sounds like your problems with perceived scale are a bit more than “slightly incorrect” but I wonder if your effective IPD distance with contacts vs glasses vs nothing might be at least part of what’s going on? Unfortunately, in college physics I got to skip optics to take an honors course in electromagnetism! Now I regret that decision! (54 years later!).

That’s the reason why I will let them re-measure my IPD. I had the 63mm measurement on my prescription since I was 10 or so. But PD can change up until your mid 20s from what I’ve read and all my self-measurements come out at 65mm (no matter the method, either manual or various apps) and I also see clearer at the 65mm IPD setting in the CV1.

The other thing is why I think there’s a bug in WMR/OpenVR somewhere:

I also have a Quest 2 and I can see the following in realtime (I can also see the same on my Pimax 8kx, but their IPD numbers are totally off/a lie so I’m focusing on the Q2):
Setting 1, 58mm) world blows up big, everything feels too big
Setting 2, 63mm) just about right, maybe a little too small
Setting 3, 68mm) everything feels like a toy

Doing the same on the Reverb G2:
Min, 62mm) I can see the view slightly shift if I close one eye, everything too small
Mid, 64mm) still everything too small, can’t see a difference in perceived scale, onlz see a slight change when I close one eye
Max, 68mm) doublevision and eyestrain but still everything too small

Going directly from 60mm to 68mm I almost see no effect of perceived scale (in matter of fact I don’t see any. I only know that there is a change because I can see the virtual camera shift ever so slightly when closing kne eye). The only difference is the amount of discomfort.

So there’s either
a) a bug in the render pipeline where the camera positions are off
b) it has something to do with the focal distance of the Reverb G2 being noticably different than every other HMD I own, which also is kind of what this thread speculates about
c) my (real life) optics are broken

About IPD and perceived scale, I’ve posted extensive details in this wish list post, please vote!

[FEATURE REQUEST] Cockpit Size and World Scale in VR

@BernhardBerger Here is how you can see the G2 hardware IPD is working (excerpt from the link above):

Here is an easy test to see this in action with WMR Headsets (at least with the Reverb G1 and the G2):

  • In the Mixed Reality House, go in front of the Halo helmet, up close (really close).
  • Open the WMR settings popup window in VR where you can adjust IPD in software.
  • Grab the slider with the VR controller and while depressing the trigger look toward the helmet.
  • Move the controller to the left fully and wait 1 sec or so, then move to the right fully and wait 1 sec or so.

In doing this you should perceive the helmet is changing size in front of your eyes (for me with an IPD close to 64, there seems to be about 3 distinctive sizes corresponding to slider left, center and right positions).

I see the same as you too in FS2020 when adjusting the IPD slider except I perceive a small change nonetheless, but not as dramatic as it is expected or as effective as with the Index for example. It might just be a WMR OpenXR driver bug (not a WMR bug). There is for example another IPD related bug with WMR for SteamVR where they are rounding the IPD value to the first decimal only… They are aware of this one though.

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Do you by any chance have links to the GitHub issues you mentioned for OpenVR?

I could only find the one kown bug with the inverted panel offsets from the …Raw() method.

This whole issue really is annoying and gets really visible if you happen to have a Oculus device for direct A/B comparison. Their SDK seems to have a vastly different implementation which seems to be spot on.

What’s even more annoying: I have ZERO clue where to report WMR/WMR for SteamVR issues. On OpenVR there is the GitHub (where issues get ignored for years nonetheless, see the display offset bug that’s been around for several years…).
I want to file a bug report, but I can’t seem to find where exactly there’s the right place for it to get acknowledged…

In it’s current state WMR/Reverb G2 is unusable to me.

I didn’t find this “inverted panel offset” known bug??! Can you post a link?

As for reporting I’m with you. It seems there are no particular means to do so (I’m sending you a PM)

It seems that I’m not allowed to post links in this forum/thread, so I’ve sent you a PM…

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I returned my G2. I could not get over how small the sweet spot was coming from my Rift S. The center is crazy clear, but the outer part of it is almost vomit-inducing blurry. If you glance down at your gauges, it is terrible. I had to resize this image down a lot, but you can see the blurry on the left around the airspeed indicator, yoke, etc. The rift s on the right is no where near as clear, you can see the pixel pattern, but it is consistent all across the lens up to the very edge where it curves out.

On “no links,” you have to earn a certain amount of forum credit as a newbie before you’re allowed to post links (happened to me, too!). In the meantime, you can essentially link to any other post and thread within the forum by quoting. If you’re active on the forum, it won’t take too long to get your status elevated.

Latest Guides/Forum Guide topics - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

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I completely agree on the blur. The worst part for me is the amount of blur heavily depends on the eye-correction I’m wearing. With contact lenses I have about 10% where I can read text (like when you bring up the windows “menu” overlay I can read the center-middle tile. Period. Everything else is a blurry mess). Thais gets VASTLY better when I’m wearing my glasses. Woth them I have about maybe 30-40% clarity and I can read the whole of the overlay. Every one of the 9 tiles, the “Applications” on the right and the row above with the sound settings. With that discovery and reports from others I’m putting all my hopes in the VROptiker inserts.

The resolution is too good to be ignored for me (simracer) as there currently are zero alternatives. The Quest 2 wastes all it’s potential on that underwhelming Link stuff and the Pimax 8kx is nowhere near the clarity and sharpness of the G2 and has tons of other issues…

I really hope they get the IPD/Camera stuff fixed so I can bridge the gap until something truly VR2.0 worthy comes along…

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There has been new Samsung patents delivered lately… let’s see how this turns out! And there is Decagear around the corner (if this is not a scam in the end), otherwise, all my hopes are into an Index 2, but there is really no indication this is even on the drawing board.

Yeah, I think Samsung is just covering their bases with the patents as basically all do. I don’t see anything anytime soon that’s PCVR relwted. My best guess is they may be collaborating with Sony on PSVR2 and end up with a mobile AiO like the Quest 2 themselves.

What’s more interesting I think is a) their new layered OLEDs as well as b) Panasonic’s new screens on their prototype (2.6k 2.8" HDR ready micro oled panels).

Varjo and Xtal also showing some life going away from fresnel lenses. Varjo would actually be doable for ultra-enthusiasts at roughly 3k if it weren’t for their 800$ yearly subscription fee and Xtal 8k with a matching price of 8k$ is just out of reach for any non-professionals. Both (actually also the G2 and Pimax) are bottlenecked by DP1.4a bandwidth which leads me to probably the next one:
Index 2.0 - I don’t see that happening anytime soon. Best hope is that the Reverb G2 was a field test for the acceptance of it’s hardware hunger with it’s 2k displays and how low people would go as far as acceptance for ■■■■■■ lenses… still can’t believe they proudly put their name on helping with that lens design… but with the Index having set new standards for high refreshrate I don’t think we’ll see anything before DP1.5/DP2.0 gets introduced or HDMI 2.1 becomes a standard rather than exception. Just a gut feeling, but they may just wait on the arrival of Lovelace/Hopper to show movement…

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Some of this stuff is undoubtedly “psychoperceptual.” I’m a hearing aid user and frequent a hearing aid forum discussing the latest HA audio tech. For the very same physical hearing aid, two people can have opposite opinions: “Best sound I’ve ever heard and I’ve been wearing HA’s for the last 20 years. Tried all brands. This is the best!” vs. “This HA model is TERRIBLE. It sounds tinny and there is no bass. I hate the sound of my own voice!”, etc., etc. Not to dismiss that there aren’t really problems with VR in MSFS 2020 and there is a long way to go before one gets 4K VR at 60 fps+ in HDR, etc. But I think part of the problem is akin to “Do we all see the same color that we call red?!”, etc.

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Yes I would second this. However HP are there own worst enemy. Pulling the headset over the cranium gives me great clarify and comfort, but…

You need to use even more of the side straps - so if you have a big head that’s fine but for me it’s borderline - just about tight enough but I can imagine for anybody with a smaller head the headset isn’t going to fit the way it was intended, forget children using this thing!

People will be shortening the top strap because they can’t get enough purchase on the side straps. Why HP have given so little margin here is just silly. And then there’s the curvature of the front padding which is excessively prenounced - which directly conflicts with the size of the straps!

So you need a big head with a round face, did they test this on the Minions!

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Agreed, I have ordered a new face gasket, The FOV mod, I’ll receive it Saturday. I think getting my eyes closer to the lens will fix clarity issues for me.

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Please let us know how it goes. I’m very curious.

I can tell you that removing the face gasket and using foam padding worked for me. It made a world of difference. It feels a lot less claustrophobic for one. There is also something with the tilt of the headset that’s wrong for me due to oversized butt cheek I have on my face. With the factory face gasket I can’t tilt it down the way it should be for my vision.

I tried pulling the side strap as far as I could to the point of popping my eyeballs, but that’s just unconfortable.

I decided to go for the modified face gasket because eventhough the foam mod thingy kind of works, I need an even and solid surface to put the pad on. With the foam mod, sometimes one of my eyes gets closer to the lens than the other, which creates different issues.

Voila, sorry it was long.

Best,

S.

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I received it today, still waiting to receive some Velcro and magnets.

It’s great, I’m happy with it, I need to find a better pad than the VR cover thing, I really don’t like this fake leather material.

Your eyes would be .1/2" closer to the screens. Forget about it if you wear glasses.

The FOV is improved for me and so is the sweet spot. The big difference I found is on the vertical FOV rather than the horizontal, eventhough there is a gain here as well.

I have it set so the curve of the gasket allows me to see almost right at the edge of the screens and it feels better. I can feel that my eyes are not struggling as much, so it works for me.

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