Real World Pilots, please state your feedback about the flight model

Got a chance to test this out on the G36 again finally, I actually just used the new menu option to increase max deflection up by 1 degree, and went from not dropping the nose at all to aggressively breaking into a left wing drop. So it will break at the stall now, but is exhibiting the same issues @Nijntje91 has documented of always wanting to drop a wing, as well as being able to flail the ailerons around up until the break without a care in the world or any influence on the stall behaviour.

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Yes, this is my experience, too. You have some influence on the stall behavior. You can change it from “parachuting” to “spin”. But still a lot is hard-coded.
For me, other missing features in the MSFS 2020 flight model are more important. Maybe Asobo will stay with this “elevator limit defines which stall animation you see” forever. Hopefully they make rudder more realistic. Or cross wind effects. Or so many other things!

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I created some new bug reports recently, you could find them here:

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You are a busy bee !

Besides flying every other day and an office job on the side, yes :joy:

Anyone ideas?

It took a whole afternoon, but I found at least of the problems with the MSFS flight model:

Edit: I think I found atleast one of the issues, when looking at the elevator deflection it is somehow depending on the airspeed, so full back sidestick at Vmo only means a few degrees of elevator deflection. I think this is due to another “improvement” they’ve incorporated to make make planes behave more “realistic”. I believe this was explained in some developer Q&A, but I can’t find it.

They’ve explained something like, its harder in real life to pull the stick full back due to the feedback from the flight control system and G-forces so they’ve limited something. Just tested on the Cessna 172, exactly the same thing going on, no full elevator deflection at high speed. This would explain the weird stall dynamics and inability to pull the aircraft in an accelerated stall, it does however not explain or solve the sensitivity issue.

The implementation is done very poorly, to the point that you can’t even stall an aircraft anymore, can’t maintain altitude during a 45 or 60 degree steep turn etc. From the video below, you can see the elevator deflection above my mouse pointer. When inside the cockpit you have no hind that this is even happening as the yoke position mimics your joystick position and is unrelated to the actual elevator position!!! Not how it works in real life at all of course, totally unrealistic.

Asobo, please, please remove this or make it an option!!!

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(2) Finds a thunderstorm and goes into it with a surprise ending - YouTube

It can def simulate walls of rain…

Something else interesting I found is that the elevator trim on for example the Cessna, does not change elevator position or yoke position in the cockpit. The aircraft does climb or descent when trimming up or down, my question is how? When the elevator itself is not moved the trim tab should work OPPOSITE from the elevator and trimming up will move the nose down and vice versa. How can they simulate the pitch trim without moving the actual elevator?

How does this work on other sims? It seems it doesn’t really matter what you dive into, with FS2020 you will always end up at something that doesn’t work…

Nijntje91 the reason is only you. You dig and dig until you find a bone. And because it is software, you call that bone a bug.

This nice picture explains everything (more or less). Your airplane is just a number of bits in the computer. Some of these bits are used for calculation AND for graphical representation. That is if you pull your stick, you get an updated calculation and an updated graphical representation. Other bits are only used for calculation. The elevator trim does not show in the graphical representation, but you get an updated calculation.
This is not completly correct. In non-cockpit view I have graphical representation of elevator trim.

See file:///C:/MSFS%20SDK/Documentation/03-Content_Configuration/SimObjects/00-Aircraft/Flight_Model.html#what-is-a-flight-dynamics-model

Maybe the same way it works in FSX/P3D. (There are a few different theories how this works)
Fact is that if you trim fully nose up/down you will notice a difference in pitch authority, something which shouldn’t be the case without a moveable stabilizer.
One of the theories is that FSX slightly shifts the CG to simulate trimming.

As long as there will be self-centering devices (joysticks, yokes, xbox thingies, …) there won’t be a one-for-all solution to this as it is simply not how planes work in the real life

All of the trimming (and sensibility curves, and “twitchyness”) issues and related workarounds would be solved with a proper FFB implementation
THAT is where a lot of effort should be spent. Having experienced FFB it is a definite game-changer (surprisingly even more so for rudder pedals where it is a MUST)

Edit: of course that doesn’t apply to FBW or possibly hydraulic systems

I agree, a FFB controller is essential for a realistic experience. I read about this one in a facebook group which works with MSFS: Brunner - CLS-E NG FORCE FEEDBACK YOKE

That’s the one I have, plus the rudder pedals

Admittedly not everyone is ready to throw away that kind of money for single purpose game peripherals

It is extremely good though!

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Zowiee! If I had that kind of money I’d be back in real planes, not at a desk! hah.

Tell me this tho, every time I’ve used an FFB aircraft control they put a bunch of weight on the roll and not enough on the pitch… Granted this was YEARS ago, but are companies getting smart about this… Ailerons relatively light, and pitch heavier with speed, etc…?

I am in real planes and MSFS has proven fantastic at recce’ing routes to new airports, circuits etc. Hence I sprang for the Brunner, as a gift to myself

You can model anything you like, the ffb axis settings are very detailed (through curves and scalars)
I have them setup very realistically

until the sim can properly depict a good model for Drag coefficients we wont have adverse yaw, without adverse yaw, we have ourselves a video game, sorry.

msfs doesnt require rudder inputs like x-cs does, (see what i did there lol)

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I second that 100%! … this is why I spend 80% time on Xplane and only 20% on MFS2020 to enjoy the visual and other stuff with some reliable mod (now only GA Gravel Mod and the C152) but after a certain time I miss the turb in CB, I miss updraft/downdraft wind/turb via Active Sky etc… on MFS2020 I can’t stand to fly a light bird into a thunderstorm without any danger that are supposed to be linked to TS or other severe weather conditions that have to be avoided for the sake of safety… MFS2020 is still a game for sure with a wonderfull potential as it was already mentioned… I was optimistic from update to update but at the end I still need to fly on Xplane most of the time. No doubt. Wait and see.

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Well I think when we fly a C152 or 172 or whatever, we should think that we fly a C152 MSFS Version. That means, as any new version of a plane it will behave a bit different than the previous version. That prevents you to wait for a certain behaviour and being disapointed that you don’t find it. For me that makes me happy to fly in the MSFS planes. In real life I used to have the Pipistrel Virus (not the SW model). It was a bit different than the one of MSFS and some things that I would really like don’t work (the air break for instance), but that’s ok it behaves quite ok and thinking that this is a brand new version makes it ok with me. In MSFS I also fly the Xcub and the TBM, as I have never flown them in real life, I am not expecting anything and think they are quite nice. I think most people make a fuss of not much (although for sure I want that it behaves quite realistic and the closest it is of real life the better of course) and I am sure this sim will be better and better

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OK, I confess. Before I went to CJ4 school for a left seat type rating last February, I used MSFS to get familiar with the jet. Although the MSFS CJ4 is a far more simplified model of the real CJ4, it is a very good reproduction especially with the Working Title Mod. The handling is very similar and it is a joy to fly in MSFS. I hope the MSFS community folks who keep improving it develop more of the aircraft’s systems and displays to make it, as real as it gets!

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