Realistic Dangerous Weather - Physics Simulation

I think we have to be careful with language as any simulation has to code for each effect:

* turbulence: this can be parameterised ‘random’ forces on a plane that have a net zero integral in any direction. I.e. the plane & contents gets bashed about in various directions but there is no ‘net’ cumulative movement over an extended period

* lift/sink/winds of various sorts: there are multiple atmospheric affects that result in a substantial air mass moving consistently up, down or sideways. EACH of those need to be calculated individually and carefully. I.e. there is rising air under every Cumulus cloud, wind blowing against a suitable slope will tend to rise, a jet-stream has a massive horizontal component.

Of course these two factors will almost always be combined, but in a simulation you have to program them differently. For the bulk horizontal movement MSFS does pretty well with “wind” and “gusts” (although IMHO the acceleration of the gusts is far too short)

There are multiple reasons for turbulence to occur, and multiple reasons for air to be moving up, down, or sideways. EACH of these needs to have planned, specific code that ends up being combined in the sim. There is no one-size-fits-all algorithm that simply makes every air particle at every scale move in a sensible direction but it’s tempting to refer to some ‘macro’ model (e.g. Asobo CFD) as if that will automatically generate every force needed. Each algorithm is good for one piece of the puzzle.

E.g. we have:

turbulence: i.e. ‘random’ air movement. Close to the ground when there’s a wind, generally in the air on a thermic day, as a modest side-effect of thermals, in a jet-stream, in strong clouds, behind another plane.

lift/sink/wind: i.e. air movement in a specific direction (to be combined with ‘turbulence’). Wind is pretty obvious. Vertical air movement under cumulus clouds, vertical air movement from heated areas of ground where cumulus clouds aren’t present (ideally Cu’s and thermals would always be linked, but if not, then it’s better the thermals are linked to the Cu’s than the ground). Possible microburst sink under CuNims. ‘Wave’ lift and sink downwind of high ground in stable air. Topographic lift/sink as air passes in close proximity to slopes, extending to a couple of thousand feet above the slope. A very complicated part of vertical air movement is that affects the clouds - at best in MSFS we’ll need to simulate that the other way around.

I’m sure there are other examples of turbulence and directional air movement, but in a simulation the best approach is to be explicit about each effect being simulated i.e. how strong are they , when/where do they occur, how long do they last etc.

9 Likes

Also payware airplanes need to do their part on turbulence simulation. In real life those heavy jet engines hanging on the wing swivels and wobbles, while the wing flexes and warp in heavy turbulence. So far everything is static, and there is no point to even do wingviews when I stream.

1 Like

Try Real Turb program, I found it very good

2 Likes

Unfortunatelly the addon RT is very limited, it doesn’t deal with any danger in the skies, using RT w’ont make a change in terms of severe up/downdraft (even lethal as it could occure in TS/CB ) it won’t add any severe turbulence in anyways based of severe (unflyable) weather conditions of the day, adding it with AS won’t change as well, it just add random turb CAT, and moderate (which some of us will call “severe” but there is a big gap between severe and moderate turbulence, like in XPlane severe turb will disconnect your PA (like in real) and in TS especially you have a big time risk to damage your airplane or even crash your bird like it happens in real life, like it happens to me with the Challenger CL 650 on IVAO (still no weather radar updated) so that i was stuck in the “red” (TS) the envelope o the bird full of ice, severe turb and crash… but Xplane is Xplane and msfs is msfs which allows you to fly through dark CB/TS without any danger or else… as it was already said here and there…

2 Likes

Brother in the little 172 I have been chucked out of the sky due to turbulence. Nothing scares a guy more than being thrown into an uncontrollable 90° turn on final.

2 Likes

Unfortunatelly the addon RT is very limited, it doesn’t deal with any danger in the skies

That is not my experience, it probably depends on what you fly (B737 in my case) and what settings you have, you can ramp up the RT settings to max, in certain severe situations my AP would connect and it was very difficult to fly, even with CWS, I always have to divert

One of the key feature in the showcase of fs2024 was better storm visuals, like snow storm and rain storms.

I dont see any difference in this feature in 2024 compared to 2020.

14 Likes

In MSFS2024 things has gotten worse than they were in 2020. I’ve been mostly flying in nordics and in northern Europe and never saw snowy weather or frozen lakes / seas – even though I always use real weather and it was cold and long winter here. Looks quite unrealistic when it’s -20 centigrade for 3 months in a row and still in the sim all lakes are open, looking like summer. Although there was snow on ground in the sim. And if it was snowing in real world, in msfs2024 it was always depicted as rain.

I hope this gets fixed before next winter..

5 Likes

I’ve seen snow numerous times in Oslo, Helsinki etc. So it’s not generally broken.

Not flying much in the Nordics but whenever I did the precipitation type matched the METAR for me.

That being said, the precipitation isn’t particularly the topic of this thread/wishlist, it’s about physics.

I think they gave up completely on physics.

My bet is there is actually nobody working on core features anymore. There wasn’t any physics update for at least 4 years now.

12 Likes

I’ve summarized my findings in SU5 Beta here in the thread linked below. I’m referencing it here, because i’m not sure which thread is being read by the devs / community managers regarding the Thermal / Updrafts issues.

1 Like

I really feel for the soaring group of people. While I don’t personally fly gliders (although I find them incredibly interesting), I have sympathy for you. You guys are getting the absolute short end of the stick when it comes to the weather issues. I feel upset on your behalf, as this could be such an incredible gliding simulator if they just made a handful of corrections.

3 Likes

As a real-world commercial pilot, convective weather is one of the most challenging and hazardous threats we deal with—often on a daily basis here in the United States. That’s why it’s frustrating to see users on VATSIM casually flying straight through supercells with tops in the mid-50,000+ foot range. It breaks immersion and really diminishes the “simulation” aspect of the experience.

From a development standpoint, there’s a real opportunity to improve both the depiction and the impact of convective weather. Updrafts and downdrafts have been extensively studied, and that data could be modeled or reasonably approximated based on storm intensity. With the introduction of weather avoidance tools in SU5, there’s now a foundation to simulate meaningful consequences for flying into these systems—encouraging more realistic decision-making.

Ideally, aircraft that penetrate strong convective cores should experience significant performance impacts, forcing users to respect weather rather than treat it as visual scenery. As a longer-term idea, it would be great to see features like hail cores or even some level of aircraft damage modeling tied to severe weather—similar to how icing currently affects flight models.

27 Likes

We need this in msfs https://forums.x-plane.org/files/file/100195-x-proturb-professional-turbulence-engine/

4 Likes

I was about to share the information, you were faster than me! I also want to ask to the dev if it could be possible to do Asobo’job :laughing: then maybe I will fly msfs again… At this current state (years after Asobo promises) flying msfs in “unsafe” weather conditions without “danger in the skies” is still just arcade/mode/cosmetic as matter of fact so that this “sim” is a big lack of realism, factual. Yeap if this plug lands on msfs it will be a game changer in terms of realism because we now understand that it is definitely not the priority of Asobo. Facts talk louder than PROMISES… Anyway I’m afraid of that : RELEASE NOTES MSFS 2032 “Realistic Dangerous Weather” :right_arrow: UNDER INVESTIGATION :left_arrow_curving_right: :right_arrow_curving_left: :hourglass_not_done: :thinking:

8 Likes

FYI, SU6 fixes:

2 Likes

114 posts were merged into an existing topic: What’s going on with the weather in 2024?

The developer livestreams have already been mentioned. I’d like to add that—especially in the later streams, back when they were still a regular occurrence—whenever the top wishlist came up (or at other times), questions regarding weather would be raised. People were particularly asking for a functional, realistic weather radar. Yet, Jörg would ignore the question, Martial would pretend not to understand it, or they would simply claim the issue was already resolved. Sometimes, I’d even say they didn’t fully grasp or understand the request in the first place. But anyway, those days are over.

11 Likes

Nice he faced Jörg with that topic, although the answer dont help, but it was an answer at all for years regarding weather.

1 Like

Why getting flagged, stop flagging each comment which you dont like!
I just ask myself, why the silence, what would be situations i would react like they do ? its not against any rule to talk about the obvious ignoring weather questions..

It is really striking and unusual just how much all three of them “duck and cover” whenever a question about “weather” comes up… This started shortly before the 2024 release… I wonder why they act this way regarding this specific topic—they don’t do it with anything else, only the weather. And it’s all the more surprising given that it is an essential core element of an Earth-twin (and, of course, of any flight sim)… I really want to know what’s going on behind the scenes…

I think I’d react the way Jörg and the others do if I’d signed a contract with a third party that completely ripped me off—where I was totally taken for a ride—and was given absolutely no chance to change even the tiniest detail, yet didn’t have the guts to admit I’d been played… honestly, I can’t think of much else that would make me act that way.

And unfortunately, a response that neither confirms nor denies anything—or offers no reply at all—is always a bad idea, as it opens the door to the wildest speculation… (why is the air racing in Roswell, anyway? ^^)

7 Likes