I’m attempting get gain insight into this new concept of JF pulling a product for “reasons” vs not storefronting it from the start, as that sends a different message. Thus far, I can only deduce that JF saw…2-3 YouTube reviews?…and pulled it. I am hoping they can provide a better justification as to how they decide to pull a product and what the developer has said (if anything) in terms of commitments to fixes. My takeaway at this point is that I can get two buddies to air displeasure with a plane on YouTube and they’ll pull something, but who knows.
1 Like
As one of the (apparently many) people that has been dealing with their support all day trying to get it to install, it’s more than just the bad reviews.
1 Like
JF’s response : "Quick message on this - You’re all correct we have decided to remove the title from sale from our website for the foreseeable future.
Pointless going into too much detail but since the release it’s become evident that there are issues that need addressing with the aircraft and until they are sorted we don’t see it as being fit for purpose and the last thing we want to be doing is having our customers spend good money on something that has issues in many areas deeming it to all intents and purposes ‘faulty’.
Anybody who bought from us and is having issues with the downloading, installing or actual aircraft itself please get in touch with our support team who will do all they can to assist you.
Sorry for the inconvenience, one and all."
3 Likes
Unfortunately says a lot about Simmarket as well.
1 Like
If Just flight pulled it from their store than thats a enough for me to not buy it. In fact i was wondering after seeing it streamed why they would back a product thats in that state. Im glad they stand by their products!
1 Like
You don’t need to be type rated to see this is just not worth the money.
Cockpit textures are clearly a port from FSX, lack of nav options, basic mistakes like the flipped switches, awful sounds, bugs galore - and also previous history of badness what with the MD11 and all.
At the end of the day it’s enough to look at various videos and ask yourself - does this look like a PMDG product? Does it look like something Fenix would put out? Because at $60 that’s the new standard. Even Leonardo - yes had terrible textures, but the depth of systems were abundantly clear. None of that exists here.
And I say this as an initially excited then rapidly disappointed buyer - I wanted this plane to be good. It’s just simply not.
EDIT: I’d say this is closer to Aeroplane Heaven’s 707. Would you pay $60 for that?
1 Like
It’s really up to the buyer to be informed. I agree with the review at Simmarket, it has a lot of promise. I can accept the plane, as is, and have flown a few legs with no problems whatsoever. Until the developer fixes the switches, and APU, I can adapt.
FTSim+ will likely produce some great sounds for this bird, as they did for the B-727, and then I’ll really be rocking in the DC-9 (of which I am a huge fan, so that colors my assessments).
Having been used to X Plane add-on prices, I consider $50 fair, and I look forward to the many liveries that are already coming out.
The X-Plane market is far smaller.
2 Likes
Well that sounds to me like this DC-9 is a perfect match to the current state of MSFS2024 
1 Like
Asked Simmarket if they will also be withdrawing it,like JF, because of serious issues.They have replied NO.
1 Like
So the onus is now on SkySims to provide a hasty fix. I think this will be a test of their integrity and commitment. For me, at least, it’s not a lost cause just yet…
Yup, If they release a patch or upgrade I’m probably going to get it.
If they keep it as-is I’m happy passing not because of the state of the aircraft but because of the lack of trust in the devs.
2 Likes
Still trying to get to the source of JustFlight’s decision via Avsim (yes that’s me being the a-hole and asking the hard questions rearding JF’s decision calculus), but it does sound like there are flaws. Looking at youtube I stumbled upon a review within the past day with a commenter saying that the dev is listening and watching all the reviews and that feedback is not on deaf ears, but I am asking that user/commenter for evidence as I’ve heard elsewhere that the dev is unresponsive. I also hope the dev can make a statement in light of one of their publishers basically calling the product trash (which I feel is inappropriate…it could have been a silent pull or a never post on their store to begin with).
Youtubers are starting to have an outsize impact on developer sales, and it’s concerning when it seems like the bulk of reviewers are ignoramuses who just want to be first-in with zero info, and may attribute user error to bugs. Not saying this is the case, but the “first in” impact overall may be.
Here’s hoping for word from the developer + quick and comprehensive fixes. Also word from JF that product placement does not depend on 2-3 initial user reviews, as I’m curious what the standard/threshold is.
2 Likes
You are right.
In particular V1-Simulations stream was really strange. He titled his video “do not buy” and spent the whole video bashing the pricing. He was totally clueless about the plane, he discovered the “pseudo-EFB” in the stream itself and had no idea about how to operate a DC-9.
So far my conclusions are:
- Yes the plane has bugs, some of them are nasty.
- The bugs are not enough to call the product trash.
- If the product does not meet Justflight standards then why it was published?
- So far not a single user said the Skysimulations MD-11 ever got a patch so unless proven wrong I’m thinking this dev is ghosting this product as-is and never intends to update or patch anything.
- What kind of dev is not worried about his sales to say something about his product? It can be in a website, here, written, spoken, why disappear?
5 Likes
JustFlight just posted a formal statement in the corresponding Avsim thread saying that they failed to do their due diligence prior to making it public. Also shared that they rely on customer feedback, media, and their own in-house QA team, while also saying that they only assess general quality, so I’m still not sure where the bar is but whatever.
I remain uneasy that JF, as a publisher, chose to publicly characterize a developer’s product as poor, rather than making a neutral statement or just doing their jobs right in the first place, but missteps happen. Here’s hoping for an updated DC-9.
Edit: I just emailed SkySim and highlighted the thread here and at Avsim, as well as commentary made regarding the state of the product, to see if they plan on providing the community with a response that addresses the concerns and outlines their plan going forward. We’ll see if I hear anything.
For what it’s worth, I contacted the dev via email. His email address can be found on his SimMarket profile.
I do like to see and encourage fellow simmers to have discussions like this, but often times I feel like these types of discussions are a bunch of people making very stern, formal statements about a product but no one is ever actually talking to the dev and instead are relying on them happening to see it or just ambiently be aware of the feedback. Try to contact them, provide feedbak directly!
Regardless, I said I was disappointed in the product and asked if they had considered opening a Discord where people could provide feedback more directly and also keep up with plans for future releases. The response was:
We are working on upgrading the product and also on the development of a
Flight Techniques Manual. In the next few days we will publish an updated version.
Obviously we have to wait to see if the update actually transpires, but it seems like they do at least intend to try and improve it. It’s certainly in a very sorry state as it is now. I wouldn’t expect any improvements to modeling, texturing, or sounds based on the current product compared to FS9/FSX/P3D versions, but hopefully the systems can be improved and bugs fixed.
3 Likes
Appreciate the insight on their response. We’ll see if they elaborate further and how much of an update will actually happen if they predict only “a few days”.
Agreed that many users these days seem to assume that devs are tracking both main forums (arguably here and Avsim) as well as who knows where else. Time and again when I’ve asked users if they’ve emailed the dev directly about an issue, they say “oh…no…I just assumed they knew this”.
2 Likes
Waiting to see what they do, but I’ll probably get it one way or another. A decade or two ago, I flew to California on Northwest Airlines specifically to fly on one last time on one of the last DC-9s in North America (and a first flight on the 757 but that’s another story) as I remember it, we left the gate using reverse thrust instead of pushback tug.
There’s a new livery for this aircraft on flightsim.to featuring the Northwest “bowling shoe” livery for the -30 model. Hoping to see it for the -10 too.
I love all the Northwest liveries. I hope for an Air Canada one one day as well.