Study Level Payware Aircraft

FWIW, I’ve been spending a lot more time in my Arrow than I have the DC-6. The cockpit I built up for the Pipers helps a lot with that :slight_smile:

But if you want a low-complexity trainer, maybe get the Warrior II before something like the Arrow. Warrior is a little slower, fixed-pitch prop, and fixed landing gear, if you want to really start at the beginning instead of a “complex” aircraft.

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I appreciate the Warrior but this Arrow purchase is simple economics. I can get three Piper Arrow models for $65. The Warrior alone is $45 and it isn’t bundled. I am sure I will get it if I like the others. But three Arrows bundled is just too tempting.

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All - Currently there is not one STUDY LEVEL plane in this sim. NOT ONE. Some good ones, but publisher of said plane specifically states it was not designed to be study level and is not study level. Supposedly PMDG is releasing a study level 737 series, do not expect that till early summer or the like.

A study level plane is one released by a company, complete in and of itself, without need of any additional modifications from another party, including you tweaking it in the background. Control modifications to your flight gear, is not modifying the plane, you are getting your gear tweaked so you can fly it. It’s complete and stands on its own. I cannot comment on any single/twin engine plane in this sim regardless of who publishes it. I only have experience in the F-14 by DC Designs, and they state, not study level. If you have plane, and you have moded it, it’s not study level, it’s a mish/mash of programing you did to make it work. NONE of the planes in this sim, as they are now study level.

And one poster said, this sim is not study level, nor approved by any aeronautical official body. I believe there is a level of X-Plane you can purchase which is study level and approved by FAA in the states. I think the device “Yoko the Yoke” is approved both in Europe and USA as a study level approved flight apparatus. To my knowledge (yes, incomplete) no other flight device is FAA approved for real world flight training. This is just a game as it stands now.

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In my opinion, there are three payware quality sims that have “depth”. Let’s just leave study-level out. I own all three below and also share my perspectives on depth as a real world GA pilot.

  1. DC-6: solid developer, complex airliner simulation, plenty to manage without needing to be an expert. It’s forgiving with the virtual co-pilot. The ability to properly start the airplane in various states will ease your transition. Also, plenty of in-depth tutorials by the developer.

  2. SWS Kodiak 100: GA turboprop with the NXi so good navigation support. Excellent flight model. You can fly this by the books and numbers are very close. Excellent developer support. If you are comparing this to the Twin-Otter, just in terms of depth, don’t. The Kodiak is a more complete simulation.

  3. JustFlight Arrow: it’s a great all-around GA plane that has enough depth and immersion to be your “daily flyer”. I don’t personally fly it much, it’s just not my cup of tea but it’s a great performing aircraft.

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Yeah, I made that comment about MSFS not being a certified training simulation. So I do understand how loosely, “Study level” gets defined. And the term is relative to what is currently available. What is, “Study level” in 2022 may not hold up to 2024 standards.

Currently, we have some Pipers, a Kodiak, some warbirds, the CRJ, and a DC6 that seem to come closest. But of course, none of them are the real airplane.

I have run out of likes. Seems this forum limits how many one can give in a day, so I must post to tell you I really liked your post! :heart:

Your post was good enough to post about.

:joy:

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Just a thought on “study-level”. We hear this quite a bit. I am not opposed to the nomenclature but I personally view study level as:

As the name states, there will be enough overall systems depth that you will need to either have extensive prior knowledge of the aircraft, or you will need to “study” provided systems manuals to learn / brush up on how to properly manage the aircraft through all phases of flight to avoid breaking something or having other consequences that ruin your flight in some way.

Does the aircraft reward or punish you based on how you operate it? In other platforms, we have deep simulated aircraft that
Have consequences if you don’t fly them properly. And, that remember their state when you shut down. If you don’t properly shutdown, you’ll have some surprises the next time you start it up. Go check out the “Hot Start TBM” for X-Plane to see what I mean and what will eventually be seen here in MSFS.

That’s a study level example. So, do we have that here? For sure the DC-6. It’s a steep cliff from there.

Thank you. I appreciate that!

Should you want it at a later date, if you buy from Just Flight you should find a 25% discount code for the Warrior on the Orders page or thereabouts.

I found mine too late lol.

That’s the idea. I will pick the Warrior up soon.

I quite enjoyed flying all the various Diamonds when MSFS Premium Deluxe was new. And the slow, simple fixed prop one is still my favorite.

Honestly get the Arrows, it won’t be long until you’re longing for something a bit faster.
Also it’s a sim there is no penalty for jumping slightly out of your depth :wink:

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No penalty at all. And yes, that’s my plan. I figure I will trade up to faster and more complex planes eventually.

“Study” level in the eye of the beholder, for the most part.
You could argue that the Majestic Dash 8 Professional level would be “study” level vs…lets say…any Carenado plane.
In other words, there’s a range and that it hard to say what it is exactly.
Virtually anything from PMDG like the DC-6 is very complicated, not exactly easy to fly at first but fun. Is it really study level? Yeah, you could make an argument for that.
The Aerosoft CRJ is sort of close but again, it does have systems/features that can be ignored and it will still work. Still, many “clickable” buttons, tons of features. (Watch “The Dude” on youtube). It can be a complex airliner. Very fun to fly as there is no autothrottle.
For me, I have all of the above but I first go the Just Flight Arrow series. These are some of the best GA planes you can buy. Next…if not on the top list is the Kodiak 100 and the Milviz Porter. I love flying these.

But sometimes I don’t have time to start up four huge engines on the DC-6 or program a complex FMS on the CRJ. Sometimes I just want to hop on…fly…land…then do something else (dozen hobbies, family). I have the Carenado Seneca and Zenith STOL for these. There are a bunch of freeware decent planes.

If you truly want “Study” level then wait for the PMDG 737.

For me, study level means I have to read the manual, procedures, performance and programming of the FMC/GPS etc and radios in order to properly fly it.
The CRJ was easy to start up and get in the air but in order to really fly it, cruise, follow airways, SID/STARS you need to get into everything in more detail.
The PMDG DC-6 manual is not short by any means. Neither is the CRJ for that matter. Put it this way, I’ve had all of these planes since release and I am still learning.

Couple these complex birds with something like Pilot2ATC (waaaay improved ATC), AIG or Simple Traffic, a good Yoke/Pedal/Throttle system and you’ll be happy.

I use the Honeycomb for mostly everything except for helos.

Agreed…maybe the term should be Systems Level…ie, all the systems operate as they would do in a particular aircraft IRL.

Several have mentioned the SWS Kodiak. It’s an excellent aircraft that will pay back what you put in. The option of G1000 Nxi avionics go a long way to enhancing the level of detail.

It’s interesting to see how these discussions play out and how often the real outstanding achievement of MSFS is never stated, which is to deliver a credible real world environment outside the cockpit. A far harder thing to do than simulate IFR instruments and procedures (which is why it is perplexing that this was less well implemented).

So a good GA aircraft, coupled with the Nxi and then head tracking and perhaps one of the free random failure mods available starts to get you there. I would get head tracking before anything else: makes VFR a delight.

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Just took the Arrow III up for its maiden flight.

I noticed a few immediate differences.

It took forever to load. A sign there is more going on with this plane than my others.

The whole plane shakes on the ground from the pistons.

Obligatory opening and closing of window. I think we have to do this with every new plane.

The sounds are amazing so far.

Taxis very good. The pedals feel better than any other plane I have yet tried. Not as twitchy as others.

Took off.

It feels simultaneously more responsive and more sluggish than the stock Asobo planes. I cannot say it captures the real feel, as I don’t know the real feel… but it gives me more of a sense of reality than the stock planes and my other add ons. Like, I move the yoke and then wait for air to pass over the wings to cause the plane to respond to my input. Whereas the stock, Asobo planes kinda react like a car would. Turn the wheels, the car turns… rather than waiting for air over the wing to cause the desired movement.

It is not a heavy plane but I get a nice sense of the weight. It must fight gravity to fly.

Land for a touch and go.

Really good feel.

It drops fast if you cut throttle. Again, feels like real weight.

Landed right on my mark.

Take off again, the sounds are still amazing.

Up again. A few thousand feet up I try a stall. Really lazy, easily recoverable stall. The wings feel like they are below my seat… right where they are.

Circle around for a wheel’s up landing. Nice and slow.

Oof! They modeled the sound of the undercarriage scraping on the runway!!!

Well, time to shut her down. She isn’t flying again in this shape. But wheels up landing worked. The sim didn’t stop when I touched ground.

This little bird surprised me several times in a few short minutes. I am intrigued and excited to learn more.

It is obviously a more detailed add on than anything else in my hangar. Not too intimidating. Pretty easy to find my way around the well worn cockpit. I look forward to hitting the books and learning it inside and out.

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now that is a very sensible approach yes, start with the simpler planes all cold and dark start, its fun.

The most important thing is that you’re enjoying this forum full of lovely sweet caring and VERY knowledgeable people. That’s what really matters :love_letter:.

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It is a spectacular community.

Sim communities in general tend to be very helpful. But the flight communities have some mind blowingly smart folks!

Indeed! Very smart folks who know what they’re talking about for once!!! And get this: Most of them are real pilots, how about that for a bonus?

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