Vatsim vs Ivao

Thanks for the reply guys, I’ll give it ago. The daft thing about all this, I was a ramp agent for 10years which involved, pushback, de-icing, marshaling ect, so I was familiar with talking to ATC and the flight deck, but this has got me nervous :joy:… Don’t ask why. Thanks again :+1:

Or you can always use text instead of voice (either text back and forth, or you texting the ATC and the ATC replying via voice).

There’s no hard requirement for voice in VATSIM, although there are few controllers here and there (especially the super busy ones) who may frown if they have to communicate via text. But they still have to comply and won’t refuse. The problem is that you may get a reply in half a minute or more instead of almost immediately. After you get the hang of it, you can always switch back to voice.

After all text is the most common type of comms in VATSIM, as most airspaces aren’t manned outside of Friday or Sunday afternoon/evening, so you still have to communicate to other pilots via text in unicom 122.8.

I’ll also recommend Vatspy (application) or Simaware (website) to see what controllers are online. It can also show you how many aircraft are inbound and outbound for that airport.

For a first flight, I recommend choosing a smaller airport that is staffed, but does not have a lot of traffic. If you check the ATIS information (available thru Vatspy or Simaware), you can even figure out what runway to expect and choose a gate/parking area nearby to make the taxi instuctions easy.

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Yes, VAT-Spy is definitely a must. It’s lightweight, stable and although it doesn’t look as sexy as other VATSIM maps out there (in app or web form), it still does the job better than anything else with minimal lag. The only downside is that it doesn’t provide any weather or other cosmetic layout info, as opposed to other solutions.

But it does two things exceptionally well: it shows traffic details as up to date as they can be and by default shows only airports that are either a departure or destination for someone. So it has a very clean interface.

With web-based VATSIM maps or other apps (such as Simtoolkitpro, which I always use but for other reasons) I had issues where map changes would literally have minutes of lag before they got updated, when e.g. a new controller joined in. In VAT-Spy it’s done must faster and cleaner.

I find that very few airports and/or controllers provide ATIS reports, less so for active runways. So I usually go to https://www.radarbox.com which has free historic data available and check recent arrivals/departures, which more or less show which runway was used for any given flight (flightradar24 does that too, along with more accurate taxiing paths but I find radarbox more convenient when searching for earlier flights).

For those looking to get started on VATSIM, Boston Virtual ARTCC has a great training program. The airspace is well staffed, well trained, and professional. While you can no longer get a certification from their WINGS training program, it’s a low stress way to learn your way around the online virtual skies.

So, I’ve been listening in as an observer. Hands down, it’s great and I see why it brings a sense realisation to both pilots and ATC, but I have noticed two things. No push tugs and no liveries. I’ve heard Easyjet, British Airways ect, but they don’t have the livery. Is that because Vatsim doesn’t support it or possibly those flying have chosen to keep a default livery? Still, minor observations, but certainly not a complaint. :+1:

You need to set up model matching for your sim. There are models and liveries that you need to download for your sim and a .vmr file that you need to generate for vPilot to know what model matches each callsign.

For MSFS, use AIG model matching (there’s a thread on this board for it). To generate the .vmr file, look up Model Matching Magic on flightsim.to.

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I regularly fly both networks and here are my thoughts.

First, don’t listen those who said IVAO “is more arcade” or VATSIM is “not newbie friendly”. It’s exactly the same immersion and the same service. Just try yourself and enjoy. It’s free. There is not so much free things with the same quality of service and ambition than IVAO and VATSIM.

From a quality and skill point of view, I see no major difference between IVAO/VATSIM pilots and ATC. I found good and bad ones, nice and agressive ones on both networks. You have required training on both side for some ATC positions. Contrary to what I’ve heard, I found some cool, nice and tolerant ATC on VATSIM, and on IVAO, controllers must have a specific skill to control some positions (major airports, CTRL, APP,…you won’t have a not-trained newbie of KSFO or EGGK).

From the coverage point of view, ATC numbers is quite similar on both platforms at the same hours. But indeed, more pilots on VATSIM on the past 6 months (around 50% more on VATSIM), mostly due to the US/UK bigger coverage.

For the tools, I have exactly the same tools on both side : Flight plan, maps, tracker. Slightly better tracker on IVAO where you can get track, flight profile and you get more information from the stats. Maps are both good even if there are some differences. Flight plan system is exactly the same. The connection “box” is similar, look’n’feel is radically different but it is a matter of taste (I prefer flat design with Altitude than old Window frame with vPilot). For the feature, it’s a copy/paste. Even the sound quality is the same, whatever we can hear. IVAO’s Altitude doesn’t use Teamspeak anymore. Moreover, both network have vocal ATIS and soon IVAO will have vocal UNICOM too (a matter of weeks).

Some differences from my personal experience (and I don’t pretend it is an absolute truth) :

  • VATSIM stronger in US, UK, Australia and NZ (there’s a anglosaxon pattern here :)) and Eastern Europe
  • IVAO stronger in France, Italy, Spain, Brazil (more a latin pattern ?) and Middle East
  • Quite the same numbers elsewhere, notably in Germany and Benelux where there are big numbers
  • IVAO has a lot of activities around World Tours or Division Tours (and obviously VA Tours).
  • Mostly DEL/GND/TWR on VATSIM. More regularly a full cover with CTR and APP on IVAO (but still, not the same regions).

Takeaway : VATSIM and IVAO are mostly the same, and the real difference, in the end, is only the geographical coverage. That’s why it’s a pity we can’t merge them, whatever the technical or political solution.

And don’t listen cheap shots on any of these networks, it’s often a personal bad experience which can’t be generalized, or from someone who don’t know well the other network. Just connect to both Discord and ask questions.

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Very well said, and absolutely true!

However, from my personal point too (not representing the opinion of any network), I have lately seen a very positive shift for both networks and thought I’d pitch in with my thoughts.

Historically, VATSIM and IVAO has been pretty much identical across the board, from leadership structure to rules to framework etc. That’s natural, given that they were once one network.

However, the past few years I’ve finally noticed the two starting ever so slightly to grow apart, which benefits both networks!

VATSIM is starting to shift towards PilotEdge in terms of expectations and surroundings, with a more professional, “hardcore” level that focuses on as realistic procedures and environment as possible. ATC is more restricted and often better and more thoroughly trained, but that means that ATC waiting queues are long and only for the commited.

ATC software favors ugly, but realistic display options that often mimick the real world counterpart, but this also makes it hard to transition between places as local rules and SOP differs greatly.

IVAO on the other hand is starting to shift to a more casual experience, that’s easier and faster ti get into. ATC training is often (not always) a bit more casual and regulations surrounding ATC positions aren’t as rigid, which makes it more attractive to try and “man the scope”. Their ATC software is visually aesthetic and pretty, but does not simulate any real world system, and it’s universal. This makes it easy to transfer skills to different places without getting trained again. IVAO is also appealing more to the ”gamification“, with awards and trophies for pilots and controllers.

This shift is great news for both networks, as members can now start to choose what kind of experience they seek. :smiley:

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Personally I ever hope that IVAO and Vatsim back to be a great ONE Network.

If the will be back one network, for the “network effect” the could have more player online that their sum.

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VATSIM and IVAO began life “merged”. It was called SATCO. Someone from one side of the table went number 1 in the cheerios of the other side and that caused someone to get bent and went number 2 in the ham and beans in retaliation. Result, SATCO split into VATSIM and IVAO.