Windows 10 Update 1909 to 2004?

N6722C · October 13, 2020, 2:39pm

I “bit the bullet” and based on what has been said in the forum, updated to 2004.

Before the update, I got no CTDs in mSFS … none at all.
Now, I cannot complete the same flight that use to be fine before the update.

That’s now actually fine with me … no point in staying in the past with an out-of-date Windows 10.

(Spent the best part of yesterday, sorting out all the Non MSFS issues, that were caused by updating to 2004 … like extra security on Network connections, stopping network traffic !!
(Yesterday, Microsoft was way down on my LIKE list !! )

But it does raise the question.

CURRENTLY, is ASOBO developing and testing with 2004 or still back, as they must have been a year ago, before 2004, still using 1909 (or a mix )

Whatever issues there are with 2004, it is the CURRENT version of W10, and there should be no good reason to go back to 1909.

If a currently developing APP does not work with the current version of W10, it is the APP that needs to evolve to to OS, not the OS that needs to revert back for the App.

SO, 2 Simple questions that maybe should be asked of ASOBO, are

(1) “Is ASOBO developing for 2004, and have moved past 1909” … simple Yes or No

and

(2) "As W10 is updated by Microsoft, will MSFS also evolve to be comparable with the newer w10 version, – or will MSFS users be expected to KEEP with an old version of W10, to retain compatibility. (Surely not)

The answer would appear to have to be obvious … but a confirmation would be nice

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 4:29am

#1 Tip …
After you update to 2004, and have done all the current KBs, you NEED to run

sfc / scannow

to fix all the things that the Windows Update seems to mess up. It will find quite a few things to FIX, after which, you will probably never see another CTD.

before the scan, I with 2004 I got a CTD withing 20 minutes of flying.

Now I am just about to land after a 2 hour flight into KBOS … but will probably set the AP to head EAST, and go to bed… fully expecting the sim to be running the tomorrow morning (Unlimited Fuel, I cheat )

I am so Psyched !!

EvidencePlz · October 15, 2020, 4:32am

Thanks for the tip. I’m still on 1903 and never bothered about updating anything except for the normal small little updates. Had no CTD etc. Thinking of updating to 2004 now because Flybywire devs are recommending it. Tough decision indeed. If MSFS starts to CTD after updating to 2004 I’ll be very angry

Seven7Tango · October 15, 2020, 4:37am

I just set up my machine’s Group Policy to (hopefully) prevent Win 10 from auto-updating later this month. Here’s a How To if you’re so inclined.

Very encouraging to read this post, however:

And I’ll be curious to know if Flight Sim runs unattended all night… that would be very good news!

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 5:24am

I spoke too soon, just got on the ILS for KBOS, and it Crashed after 3 hour flight.

But the good news is, I do have a Full Crash Log. (all 8 GB of it !!)

WinDBG analysis - (Attempt to read from address ) ffffffffffffffff
Big Surprise

Should I try to send the while 8GB file to ZenDesk ??? lol

ANALYSIS

Loading Dump File [C:\Users\ms\AppData\Local\CrashDump\FlightSimulator.exe.10908.dmp]
User Mini Dump File with Full Memory: Only application data is available

************* Path validation summary **************
Response Time (ms) Location
Deferred srv*
Symbol search path is: srv*
Executable search path is:
Windows 10 Version 19041 MP (8 procs) Free x64
Product: WinNt, suite: SingleUserTS Personal
Edition build lab: 19041.1.amd64fre.vb_release.191206-1406
Machine Name:
Debug session time: Thu Oct 15 00:51:33.000 2020 (UTC - 4:00)
System Uptime: 1 days 1:57:36.076
Process Uptime: 0 days 3:16:22.000
…
…
…
…
Loading unloaded module list
…
This dump file has an exception of interest stored in it.
The stored exception information can be accessed via .ecxr.
(2a9c.4d4): Access violation - code c0000005 (first/second chance not available)
For analysis of this file, run !analyze -v
ntdll!NtWaitForMultipleObjects+0x14:
00007ffd`ea22c8e4 c3 ret
0:000> !analyze -v

                   Exception Analysis                                   *

*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for WwiseLibPCx64P.dll
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for WTF.dll
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for CoherentUIGT.dll
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for CoherentGTJS.dll
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for XPlatCppWindows.dll
*** WARNING: Unable to verify checksum for MicrosoftGeospatialTiles.dll

KEY_VALUES_STRING: 1

Key  : AV.Fault
Value: Read

Key  : Analysis.CPU.mSec
Value: 2093

Key  : Analysis.DebugAnalysisProvider.CPP
Value: Create: 8007007e on SCOPESYS

Key  : Analysis.DebugData
Value: CreateObject

Key  : Analysis.DebugModel
Value: CreateObject

Key  : Analysis.Elapsed.mSec
Value: 6379

Key  : Analysis.Memory.CommitPeak.Mb
Value: 279

Key  : Analysis.System
Value: CreateObject

Key  : Timeline.OS.Boot.DeltaSec
Value: 93456

Key  : Timeline.Process.Start.DeltaSec
Value: 11782

Key  : WER.OS.Branch
Value: vb_release

Key  : WER.OS.Timestamp
Value: 2019-12-06T14:06:00Z

Key  : WER.OS.Version
Value: 10.0.19041.1

Key  : WER.Process.Version
Value: 1.9.5.0

ADDITIONAL_XML: 1

OS_BUILD_LAYERS: 1

NTGLOBALFLAG: 0

PROCESS_BAM_CURRENT_THROTTLED: 0

PROCESS_BAM_PREVIOUS_THROTTLED: 0

APPLICATION_VERIFIER_FLAGS: 0

CONTEXT: (.ecxr)
rax=3434343a56202c34 rbx=000004005402ea08 rcx=000004007aa1a9c0
rdx=000004001e92bac0 rsi=0000000000000002 rdi=0000000000000001
rip=00007ff6b4c0b46c rsp=0000006908ffef80 rbp=000004001e92bac0
r8=0000000000000000 r9=0000000000000000 r10=00007ff6b83ce434
r11=00007ff6b8231500 r12=0000040020916900 r13=0000000000000000
r14=000002650a350388 r15=000002650a350388
iopl=0 nv up ei ng nz ac po cy
cs=0033 ss=002b ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010297
FlightSimulator+0x3db46c:
00007ff6b4c0b46c 488b00 mov rax,qword ptr [rax] ds:3434343a56202c34=???
Resetting default scope

EXCEPTION_RECORD: (.exr -1)
ExceptionAddress: 00007ff6b4c0b46c (FlightSimulator+0x00000000003db46c)
ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 2
Parameter[0]: 0000000000000000
Parameter[1]: ffffffffffffffff
Attempt to read from address ffffffffffffffff

PROCESS_NAME: FlightSimulator.exe

READ_ADDRESS: ffffffffffffffff

ERROR_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000005 - The instruction at 0x%p referenced memory at 0x%p. The memory could not be %s.

EXCEPTION_CODE_STR: c0000005

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER1: 0000000000000000

EXCEPTION_PARAMETER2: ffffffffffffffff

STACK_TEXT:
0000006908ffef80 00007ff6b5440dbb 0000006908ffefb0 00007ff6b5700357 0000006908ffefe0 00007ff6b5183ca2 0000006908fff040 00007ff6b5180e54 0000006908fff090 00007ff6b5181ad2 0000006908fff0d0 00007ff6b5164627 0000006908fff160 00007ff6b5162332 0000006908fff1a0 00007ff6b4e245e8 0000006908fff1f0 00007ff6b4e283c0 0000006908fff230 00007ff6b4e3f9be 0000006908fff290 00007ff6b4c3c042 0000006908fff2d0 00007ff6b4c3d61d 0000006908fff3d0 00007ff6b54a5ce9 0000006908fff480 00007ff6b542daa2 0000006908fff4c0 00007ff6b5d0ea5f 0000006908fff510 00007ff6b61f056c 0000006908fff680 00007ff6b61f0a7f 0000006908fff6e0 00007ff6b5e7d90a 0000006908fff720 00007ff6b5e7d08e 0000006908fff790 00007ff6b5bd6935 0000006908fff7d0 00007ff6b671a162 0000006908fff810 00007ffde82a7034 0000006908fff850 00007ffdea1dcec1 0000006908fff880 0000000000000000 : 000004004a2916b0 000004001e92bac0 00007ff6b6d8c9d0 0000040007065350 : FlightSimulator+0x3db46c
: 0000040053662520 0000000000000000 000004001e92bac0 000002650a350388 : FlightSimulator+0xc10dbb
: 0000040007065350 0000000000000000 000002650a350388 0000026600003700 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x242ab7
: 0000040000003700 0000006908fff140 00007ff6b827b5ec 0000006908fff178 : FlightSimulator+0x953ca2
: 0000000000000001 0000006908fff178 0000000000000000 00007ff6b5503601 : FlightSimulator+0x950e54
: 0000000000000000 0000006908fff1a0 00000400204cb450 00000400204cd338 : FlightSimulator+0x951ad2
: 00000400204cd338 0000006908fff208 00007ff6b51645f0 0000000000003700 : FlightSimulator+0x934627
: 0000006908fff240 000002663adeb8a8 000002663adeb7c0 00000400204cd338 : FlightSimulator+0x932332
: 0000000000003700 0000006908fff2a8 00000400204cd338 0000025800000000 : FlightSimulator+0x5f45e8
: 4051daf57e9d7a41 0000040000003700 0000000000000001 00000400204cd338 : FlightSimulator+0x5f83c0
: 0000040006c44d00 000002649807c0b0 00007ff6b6bea6e0 0000000000000019 : FlightSimulator+0x60f9be
: ff00008000000000 0000040006c44d00 0000000000000000 000000003d75e000 : FlightSimulator+0x40c042
: 0000000000000001 00000000ff000080 40c72838cb7f1bec 0000006908fff518 : FlightSimulator+0x40d61d
: 000004001ff195a0 0000000000000000 0000006908fff780 0000000000000000 : FlightSimulator+0xc75ce9
: 000004001ff195a0 00007ff63dccccce 00007ff6b6b9a88c 000004001f5e8d10 : FlightSimulator+0xbfdaa2
: 00007ff600000001 00000400037c3610 000004001ff195a0 0000040006ac0d10 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x8511bf
: 0000000000000002 0000000000000000 00000400ffffffff 00000000ffffffff : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0xd32ccc
: 0000040006ac0d10 8000000000000000 0000006908fff780 00007ff600000000 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0xd331df
: 0000040000340000 0000000000000000 0000000000000005 0000000000000000 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x9c006a
: af35876900009fe0 00007ff6b6b76980 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x9bf7ee
: 0000000000000005 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 01d6a29381863642 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x719095
: 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 : FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd+0x125c8c2
: 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 : kernel32!BaseThreadInitThunk+0x14
: 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 0000000000000000 : ntdll!RtlUserThreadStart+0x21

SYMBOL_NAME: FlightSimulator+3db46c

MODULE_NAME: FlightSimulator

IMAGE_NAME: FlightSimulator.exe

STACK_COMMAND: ~0s ; .ecxr ; kb

FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: INVALID_POINTER_READ_c0000005_FlightSimulator.exe!Unknown

OS_VERSION: 10.0.19041.1

BUILDLAB_STR: vb_release

OSPLATFORM_TYPE: x64

OSNAME: Windows 10

IMAGE_VERSION: 1.9.5.0

FAILURE_ID_HASH: {b196447b-0ec2-4af8-aed4-49f7b9178656}

Followup: MachineOwner

0:000> .exr -1
ExceptionAddress: 00007ff6b4c0b46c (FlightSimulator+0x00000000003db46c)
ExceptionCode: c0000005 (Access violation)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 2
Parameter[0]: 0000000000000000
Parameter[1]: ffffffffffffffff
Attempt to read from address ffffffffffffffff

Seven7Tango · October 15, 2020, 5:34am

Bummer, man…

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 5:35am

I look at the good side – I’m not the one that has to fix this one

Seven7Tango · October 15, 2020, 5:37am

lol! That’s a good way to look at it…

MichaMMA · October 15, 2020, 2:02pm

just because “sfc /scannow” have nothing to do with MSFS

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 2:44pm

Oh … silly me – what do I know - thanks for the Tech Tip - I really was thinking that MSFS relied on the OS working correctly – now I know better.

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 2:56pm

My latest CTD was in level fight, with AP on, @ 10,000ft … after about 20 minutes

FlightSimulator!FlightSimGetMainHwnd + 0xdfbe30

c0000005 Access Violation

 mov rax,qword prt [rdi] ds:00000010'00000001

Attempt to read from address 0000001000000001

Note: EVERY CTD I have ever had with MSFS are c000005 Access Violations

These should not be that difficult to Exception Trap ??

MichaMMA · October 15, 2020, 3:18pm

question to be sure: you have AZURE also NOT Enabled ?

and: which aiplane you fly ?

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 3:34pm

C172 Classic (as simple as you can get and still have an AP).
Also a plane I have 100’s of RL hours in

Yes AZURE on … The next test will need to be with Azure off (No ATC), and no AP, and no need for the plane to reference any ground navigational Database items…

See what happens then.

The Frustrating thing is that I had no CTDs before updating W10 to 2004, and that was a few days of CTDs before the #4 MSFS Patch.

MichaMMA · October 15, 2020, 3:40pm

OFFFFF it must be OFFFFFFF ( upd.: more exact WINDOWS OFFLINE, you still have speech with it ! )

Azure=On is one of the known Crash-Reasons… just set it to windows-offline speech …

I done it for a while, and never again a crash… and this Azure Crashes, as also other big issues, comes with these first patch…

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 3:47pm

Yes, should have taken more notice of that advice earlier on

Must have been distracted, smashing my foot !!! “Stupid me” !!

MichaMMA · October 15, 2020, 4:34pm

don’t be so hard to your self

hobanagerik · October 15, 2020, 5:00pm

I’ve been using Azure for voice, and I’ve had no crashes because of it that I could attribute to it. I have had that issue where you don’t hear anything, just the sound of someone keying the mic. but that’s it.

ElectronVolt714 · October 15, 2020, 5:03pm

I have 2004. No problems whatsoever.

MichaMMA · October 15, 2020, 5:17pm

it is just very random… but at some airports I had can directly repeat the issue, call ATC an bang… unfort… I forgot which it was :-/

N6722C · October 15, 2020, 5:24pm

Maybe whats is needed is a “shared” Standard Test Flight, that evokes the CTD situation for someone, and then a number of others can try it and see.
I am thinking the AI Pilot flies the plane, that way there should be some standardization of the flying.
Its almost like a crude “Scripted Test”.

If it causes a CTD for the majority, then ASOBO should be able also run that same flight, and debug it …

But it would require a few in here to work together, with the same goal in mind.