Thrustmaster’s yoke has even higher resolution at 16 bits, but functionally that’s not significant difference as 12 bits is fully sufficient resolution already for these controllers. For example my Gunfighter has selectable resolution up to 15 bits, but there’s absolutely no need to use it (I think I have it at 12 or 13) since it makes no functional difference at these levels. Sensor resolution tends to be an overmarketed point.
That being said, compared to the first model Honeycomb yoke it had sufficiently low resolution that the increase in sensor resolution is significant. Also significant is the greater reliability and longevity of the contactless sensors (in this case Hall effect, which Thrustmaster also uses).
I once ran some number for the VKB sticks, which have 15bit precision. Due to their travel I worked out you would need a >20ft pole attached to the base to make realistic use of them at 1mm accuracy, directly mapping 1mm to one increment change on an axis.
This isn’t to say that <1mm movement on an axis is impossible, just that it might be imperceptible perhaps.
no they do not
man i thought that the honeycomb xbox hub was going to let us hook up anything to everything
i still want honeycomb but i also want some fanatec and the new herman miller gaming chair
Thanks for the added information on resolution and Hall effect, although as an imminent first-time user of such a peripheral, I don’t quite comprehend what it all entails but nevertheless trust that being an improvement from the earlier version and also reaching parity with some of the competitors in the market, it’s worth a buy, and that is assuring
The actual deflection of the Gunfighter base is 20 degrees either way (same as the equivalent Virpil base), producing, with 20cm extension and the compact SCG grip about 22cm of throw (distance between max forward and max rearward position) measured from the trigger. With 12 bit resolution selected that would register movements as small 0.054mm, quite sufficient. The pitch throw of the Boeing yoke is similar, while that of the Honeycomb is about half (unless XPC is improving on that). In comparison the old Honeycomb yoke had pitch precision nearing half a millimeter, which you can actually notice.
Dumb question then: If our muscular resolution isn’t any better than 1 mm when controlling a yoke/joystick, why do we need higher than 8bit precision?
My Honeycomb Alpha yoke has a pitch travel of about 15 cm (from memory). That’s 150 mm. 150/256 is about 0.6 mm per bit, which is already better than your expectations for muscular resolution. Would I even notice the benefit of a 12 bit resolution yoke?
And for what that’s worth, I don’t notice any twitchyness on my Alpha yoke but maybe that’s because I like to fly docile GA aircraft?
That was a guess on my part. My yoke has 4096 precision on each axis, and I think about 8” of travel.
I can use the tip of my finger to move the yoke, and cause the nose to drop, and I hardly feel it move. I can’t say I could control that to any degree of accuracy if I had to, but the yoke doesn’t care, it just reacts to my movements.
I would guess those gentle pushes are far less than 1mm, but I can’t easily discern that, or assign a value to it.
What I do know is that some users complain about certain planes, like the Kodiak, are twitchy in flight, and those of us with Fulcrum or Yoko yokes don’t see that. The difference is the hardware.
I have both the Honeycomb Yoke and the TM Boeing yoke. I also have the Honeycomb TQ. Aside form the fact the Honeycomb Alpha RJ45 port was defective and I lost all of the thumb button controls (outside of warranty period so unable to fix), the Boeing yoke is superior for both GA and airliner flying IMO. The Honeycomb is way too stiff on the pitch axis so it made it difficult to fly certain aircraft at times. Since buying the Boeing yoke, I have been very happy with it and it feels much better than the Honeycomb. Mounting it is much easier as I never liked the way the Honeycomb mounted. My desk was slightly too thick (2") for the default Honeycomb clamps so had to use some other clamps I had laying around. The XL Clamps they sell are way too large even at their smallest setting of 3" so if your desk is between 2-3", neither will work!! The sticky pad is also ridiculous and will not last. With the pitch axis being so stiff, it will eventually ‘unglue’ from the desk during a takeoff. The Honeycomb TQ has been great though, so I can highly recommend that product as I have had no issues with it so far (have had it for 18 months). Boeing yoke with Honeycomb TQ would be my recommendation.
How do you find the Thrustmaster ™ throttle quadrant that comes bundled with the Boeing yoke pack?
Also, what’s the difference between the TM TFRP and TPR? — both are rudder pedals from what I see on TM’s website. Are both compatible on Xbox? Which do you recommend for someone with no pedals at all currently?
I’m on Xbox. If I were to get the TM Boeing yoke, how does the TM throttle quadrant and the TM TFRP/TPR connect to the set up — via the yoke, or direct to the Xbox console?
Sorry for the many questions
[EDIT: I’vel looked up the Xbox-compatibility point regarding the TFRP and the answer is that it can ONLY work with Xbox through another TM product like the T.Flight Hotas One, Boeing yoke or throttle quadrant. So it’s a similar issue with the Honeycomb Bravo and Charlie, which only work on Xbox through the Honeycomb Hub plugged into the Alpha XPC yoke].
Thanks for sharing this. The big question mark would be whether the new generation Honeycomb Alpha coming out in Sept would remedy some of the deficiencies you mentioned in the first generation Alpha. Until the product is out and the reviews in, it’s anybody’s guess I suppose
I am using the Honeycomb Alpha and Bravo setup with the Thrustmaster HOTAS Stick and Throttle. All are extremely well made and have more than enough buttons, hats and switches to keep your hands busy.
Hi guys, my first post (apologies if I get something wrong!)
My $0.02,
Honeycomb throttle is the best avsim throttle out there based on using a Logitech throttle, TM airbus, TM Boeing, TM T16000, Virpil CM3. However, best throttle in general, hands down miles ahead - CM3 - the metallic nature of it is very apparent vs. all the platicky options but its not ideal for non mil sim IMO due to all the extra buttons and functions on the honeycomb.
Yoke…I have a TM yoke and a Honeycomb Alpha…The TM yoke’s pendular nature is oh so much better for simulating a yoke such as on Boeing aircraft. However…thats where it stops and the downsides relative to the Alpha yoke begin -
Alpha feels way more premium, better tactility in the switches, much better ‘rubberised feel’, the bungee cords in the Alpha actually have nice springback and center detent so its not too bad missing out on the pendular.
TM yoke feels like it was built on a budget , cheaper tacky plastic on the touch points, some silly design decisions - the tablet holder cant change angle, the ‘crotch killer’ protrusion on the front…and why oh why are the cable ports on the back AND the side???
I wish they had a way to mount it under a table.
Given that I don’t have anything to compare it to, other than the throttle that is part of the Hotas One, I’m pretty happy with it. I love that you can buy a second quadrant and gang them together for 6 axis. I’ve made use of the extra autopilot buttons/selector on the second quadrant for tuning radios.
The difference is price by a massive margin, but the difference in quality, as a result, is night and day. The TFRP are frustrating in their poor “action” and have terrible “stiction” in their movement. This translates to jerky/skippy motion as you move them. I tried various lubricants, hand profiling the plastic bushing that move along the metal runners, which helped, but they still move poorly. The TPR are metal, heavy and have smooth action for precision motion and are seriously nice.
The yoke and the quadrant(s) each have a USB-A and a connector similar to a telephone RJ11 connector. You would plug the yoke into the Xbox, the quadrant into the yoke with a USB-A-to-USB-C cable and the TFRP into the RJ11 jack on the yoke or quadrant. The TPR would need to be plugged into the USB-A of the quadrant or yoke, if not using a quadrant.
So, other than price and quality differential, the TFRP and TRP basically perform the same rudder functions, and (I know this sounds silly) if you get the TRP, then you don’t need the TFRP, right?
Ah, so either pedals (TFRP or TPR) can work with Xbox, but need connecting through either the Boeing yoke, or the TM throttle quadrant— I was under the (mistaken?) impression it needed T.Flight Hotas One stick to be able to connect.
That’s a nice set-up you’ve got there! Are the small side tables you are using to place your Xbox controller and mouse custom made?
Though while there seems to be lot of could-have-been better on the TM Boeing throttle quadrant I think it is worth noting that it uses contactless sensors under the hood. I believe every other throttle you listed excepting the CM3 still uses potentiometers for the throttle axes. Contactless sensors might less important for throttle than X and Y, but they are still nice to have.
One thing I have noticed in this scene is that exterior build quality can be deceptive. TM Warthog joystick grip vs. VKB SCG grip would be a prime case in point, as in that case the grip that is internally superior (mess of wires and hot glue with cheap buttons vs. cleanly laid out array of PCB with real switches) feels externally cheaper.
I don’t trust Thrustmaster to be secretly superior based on previous experience, but I wonder if Honeycomb is really any better?
That was my error, on verifying after @NixonRedgrave corrected me, there’s even a port specifically labelled TFRP on back of the Boeing yoke and quadrants, similar to port you can find on T Flight HOTAS and the TWCS throttle. In my defense, Thrustmaster’s website was really un-helpful when checking this out (it even removed TPRs as option when I clicked on Xbox button, but I trust Nixon that they are actually compatible).
I completely back you up on this. Thrustmaster has done a very poor job with explaining compatibility and how the yoke and pedal options interface with one another — especially for Xbox.
It needs stating that neither the TFRP nor TPR can work with the Xbox directly — meaning the TFRP requires the Hotas One or the yoke/quadrant, and the TPR will only work with the yoke/quadrant to work on Xbox. Neither of the pedals can be plugged directly into Xbox.
Thanks for the insights and agree with your comments. There are pros and cons of each. Once the new Honeycomb Alpha yoke comes out, I believe it will also be using contactless sensors but suspect they will also jack up the price.
Are the small side tables you are using to place your Xbox controller and mouse custom made?