12/4 Dev Stream: Age of Bing Data - No Jorg, it's still using the original 2020 data

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I’m going to update this post later today when I get home with example images, but I’d like to address Jorg’s comments about the Bing Data.

The Bing data is still really old when PG is turned on.

I’ll show pictures later, but, a good example is KFIT in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. In 2020, if you go to the World Map to start a flight, the World Map, sure enough, shows essentially current data, where 2-20 has been closed and essentially removed (there’s still remnants). But if you go into the sim, the airport still has 2-20, and its associated nav data. IOW, data from circa 2018 or earlier.

In 2024, the World Map shows the old Bing Data, and the airport still has runway 2-20, and so does the sim.

Same thing if you go visit the American Heritage Museum by Boone Lake in Stow, MA. 2020 World Map, newish, circa 2017 data, sim 2015 data, turn off PG, newish circa 2017 / early 2018 data (while they are building the current museum, which opened in late 2018). 2024, world map and sim, 2015 data.

No, Jorg, the sim is still using the old MSFS 2020 data and it has not been updated in the Northeast U.S.. since the release of MSFS 2020. As I noted, the new data is in there in 2020, but it’s suppressed by PG. I haven’t tried turning off PG in MSFS 2024 yet to see the underlying Bing data. So, there’s a pretty big mismatch in the scenery we see due to the age of the PG data in places at least. I imagine this is why you’re confused by what people are saying that the Bing Data is old. They really mean what they see for scenery in the sim, and don’t realize that the PG data is not necessarily the underlying Bing data.

I’ll post supporting images later.

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PG data isn’t from Bing. Bing data is satellite imagery and THAT is definitely different and in most places I checked up to date (there’s a motorway tunnel that was finished lately and the Bing imagery shows the finished tunnel)

As far as I know they get their TIN/PG data from other sources. But I agree: the PG data I checked so far seems to be the same as before, but of course I can only check the one, where I personally know what it looks like in real life.

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Yeah, as you were writing I realized I left that bit of data out, that people think all the scenery is the Bing data, and even if the Bing data is up to date, it’s suppressed by the PG data. Default Airports aren’t being updated because they are tied to the PG data, which is really holding the sim back.

Ultimately, we need the ability to turn off ALL PG Data with a polygon over a large area if we want the sim to be the best. While I enjoy PG data when I’m flying, it gets in the way of scenery creation. You can suppress PG features, like buildings and trees, but you can’t suppress the underlying scenery, and this causes issues all over the place. Terraforming tools don’t work, when you try, the grass stays floating, and more and other issues.

In my KFIT airport, I was able to edit it to come close to the real thing. But, at the American Heritage museum, I can’t, at least not without creating a huge 3D solid model of the terrain. The only way my scenery works there is if I turn off PG everywhere. I haven’t released it because of that.

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hi
it’s very difficult to get some clean cut facts regarding this situation because three things are constantly getting mixed up by the users and since last night by the developers as well

  1. PG areas have their own ground textures, independent of the underlying bing texture
  2. the new aerials for 2024 were never going to be full world coverage,only selected areas
  3. jorg last night understood that people were asking for google aerials, that is not the case
  4. for some reason, when 2024 shows the same aerial as 2020, it is in a lower quality and with worse colors, making it uglier, further compounding the confusion
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Where I live, the map is post-april 2020…I can see the blurry image of my son’s car in my blurry parking.

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Where I live, it’s pre-2018 data. I see fields where developments were built in 2018.

I’d be happy with 2020 data.

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  1. It’s totally true that people are asking for Google data. There are more sources of users Jorg reads than just here. The crowd here is a small sliver of the user base that posts on the “web”.

Not that I don’t understand the answer. I just wanted to point out it is the case people are asking for google data.

  1. It does look uglier to me, but, I’m going to assume that’s because I haven’t flown in summer yet in 2024, and these are the seasonal textures. I won’t go into the PG trees as that’s not the subject of this post.
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Again, I want to point out, underlying the PG data in 2020 is the updated Bing data, but, in many areas it’s not visible, since most areas I fly are PG (the northeast U.S. has quite a lot of PG). I haven’t turned off the PG in 2024 yet, but, unlike the world map in 2020, the world map in 2024 in a lot of the northeast is showing circa 2015 data, as I imagine it’s showing the same data as the sim does, unlike the World Map in 2020.

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My area is still the same in FS2024 just as it was in FS2020 with regards to PG - 10 years out of date. Turn off the PG and the satellite imagery and building placement is up to date but of course that leaves you with autogen buildings.

The PG in downtown Los Angeles is still the same as FS2020. The same iPhone 6 building ads are still present.

Interestingly, Phoenix does not have PG present although it was present in FS2020. All of the buildings downtown are autogen.

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As a kind reminder, discussion of applications, techniques or other methods that deliberately modify the sim outside of Terms of Use or violate other products’ Terms of Use is not allowed. We’re starting to tread closely here folks.

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yes thats true, what i meant is, the question in the devstream was about when are we going to see the updated bing data, not google’s

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Sorry, I was just addressing the topic. Jorg said in the stream that people are asking for Google data. And he answered “No, we can’t afford it”. Obviously, let’s see, Microsoft owns Bing, I’m pretty sure one of the reasons for MFSF is to show off how great Bing is, and how it can be used. I’m totally down with that, and have no desire for Google data personally. 6 of this, half dozen of that… Bing data is just fine.

Point of the thread… Yes, Jorg, maybe a lot of Bing data in the sim has been updated. But, it doesn’t matter if the Bing data has been updated. We aren’t seeing the updated Bing data. It doesn’t matter if it’s in the sim or not for a lot of us because PG data trumps Bing data, and a lot of PG data is very old.

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You said people aren’t asking for Google data in your previous post. I was just addressing that point.

And Jorg addressed the question many people are asking, “Can we have Google data in the sim”… “No”.

Jorg very well hears that people want updated Bing Data in the sim, but, based on his response, he’s missing the point.

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He’s also not commented at all on if the new imagery and TIN and photogrammetry is in the sim now. He showed lots of slides at the global event showing coverage of new stuff. Almost all of the US. But in sim, I see old stuff alot, others too. Msfs support told me new data was delayed. And Jorg said months ago that the shared world of 2020 2024 would be delayed.

But no updated comment or confirmation of what is currently in place and what will come when.

We need that. And they blew an opportunity yesterday

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Thanks.

Personal Comments and Observations

Just to give some Context based on personal mullings - every decision made in the sim’s offerings takes into account the consideration that additional expense NOT be passed on to the end-user.

It doesn’t make strategic sense to use someone else’s map service when you have access to one now. Doubly so if it’s a competitor’s product.

That rationale would also apply to why Lufthansa / LIDO was selected over other options.
.

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Question - I put this comment up right before your note - what are the “flags” that you’re referring to ? :nerd_face:

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The reason people are getting flagged is discussion of illegal software that’s against Code of Conduct. This would include “other server based Map providers.” Just because they’re not named doesn’t mean they’re any less non-compliant a topic.