lol How do you know all this? The sales job? One day Asobo sent a salesman to call on MS and the pitch was we want to make a modern day sim like FSX?
I think the bottom line is that this is a game, unless I missed something somewhere, never was it ever positioned as a student level flight simulator for training future pilots.
That aside, I am not a RL pilot but some of the payware aircraft I have used I am very happy with in terms of detail, perhaps not quite “study level” as people like to call them, but complex enough to make it immersive and the sim layers on the weather, visual beauty and everything else in spades to amplify it.
Once PMDG release their aircraft in January, I am sure that will take this sim to the next level, but it always was and always will be, a game…
It would appear that there were only three options for creating MSFS 2020
- Create the most awesome simulator in the history of mankind and code it perfectly from the start.
- Start with a duplicate of FSX and build very slowly over the ten years, vowing to put up changes only if the code was 100% bug-free.
- Start from scratch and make a much more complex simulator with new options and build on them, fixing the bugs along the way.
#1 was what we all wanted, but that didn’t happen. We’d all complain if they went with #2, and that leaves #3, which is what we were given.
So considering that we have #3, I’d say that while it’s not perfect, it does beat FSX.
14 Likes
They told the story in one of the developer Q&A’s.
The origin story in itself is quite interesting but the post above is partly incorrect.
According to the article linked it was Jorg (Microsoft) that apparently had the idea while producing a different content for MS, he apparently brought Asobo onto the project because of their experience with large scale open world development.
2 Likes
One would think people use what has been learned and don’t start from zero again… ^^ A new car model won’t start with Carl Benz again either…
After 14 years in today’s software world you always start from zero. Technologies and programming, interfaces, 99% server-based content … all has changed. Most likely it’s not the same people either. This IS a completely new project with features noone has ever tried before. There is bound to be stuff not working. It’s also always been communicated that it’s a 10-year-project, so it’s unrealistic to expect perfection from the beginning.
And back to your car analogy: it’s like coming from a 1990s diesel car and trying to build a modern electric car.
And as I said before: most versions of MSFS - like FSX (even though it was based on FS2004, which was based on FS2002, which was based on FS2000 etc etc) was not really a complete product until patches, DLCs and of course many many 3rd party addons made it better. And here development was killed after the. Acceleration Pack.
Still you had to buy a new FS every 2-3 years and also had to buy new addons because many weren’t compatible with new versions. This new MSFS will run for 10 years and most addons will remain with it. What do you think is the better deal?
9 Likes
But neither visually nor from a performance perspective anything negative can be said about Asobo. Stability, yes for many people but if it works it runs extremely smooth and fast compared to any other flightsim. Complex flight model calculations are heavy on any hardware and Asobo have managed that really well. But everything else that makes a flightsim a flightsim is lacking massively compared to previous versions. There have been years of development of infrastructure and respective support, flight simulation has evolved extremely for the last 10 years and there are minimum requirements that must be met. Climate control, power steering, heated seats, bluetooth smartphone connection, USB charging port, speed control. There are minimum requirement and they have not been met. We got a product that looks amazing but all the things we need and want are missing. Late implementation of these features break other things or they don’t work themselves at all. And now they start reinventing the wheel which is not only not necessary but slows down progress of other development. They could simply have implemented the old ATC logic without expanding it to some weird pretended procedure implementation and we could have AIG (for example) taken care of traffic. They could have used a simple but working camera system and make it accessible and we had all the solutions that we have asked for since the release. They could have looked at existing sims to know what we need and want regarding a good user interface and in-flight data (maps, charts, radio and nav information etc) and could have used their time for these things but they didn’t and now we have nothing but uncertain promises for the future. The list goes on. Technically you can’t use what has been around 15 years ago but all the information and knowledgebase about what the customers expect was there.
3 Likes
exactly - agree with this
OK…MSFS2020 can be used as a training aid BUT if you’re a student pilot, you have already a lot to learn and for this reason what you need is a realistic simulator, MSFS as the most realistic texture at the moment, airplane are ok for basic training but the problem is that when you enter the settings just, for example to set the view to go quick from looking in front on you to throttle quadrant and stay there as long as you need before looking back ahead, and stay there without the view go back automatically to the first position you have to pick up the right setting in a long list…This is nor necessary nor useful…Of course, for simmers the like special events, plenty of camera’s view and keyboard combinations it might sound like a lot of fun…In the real airplane you must scan your panel very often, using a precise pattern and you need the information right away…Sounds a bit difficult when you have to remember which one of the dozens of keyboard combinations is the right one when you’re on final approach… In fact, using former version of FS or Xplane, all I need is the top central button of my Thrustmaster joystick to go around the cockpit quickly and the wheel of my mouse to zoom in and out…That’s it…I don’t have to think about a large choice of keyboard combinations so I can concentrate on the most important thing: Flying the airplane…If you can teach me how to get the same simple setting on MSFS2020 I would be delighted…
2 Likes
I understand what you are saying and I agree with the facts that the simulation of aircraft in general is less evolved than with P3D or XPlane.
But still I don’t think you can just take P3D or XPlane and convert the systems and flight models to a completely new platform. Here the car analogy with heated seats etc. does not work anymore. Think steering and gas pedsl instead: todays cars have electric gas pedals and steering. 20 years ago everything was mechanical.
Then there’s marketing. In order to sell large quantities you have to have a universal selling point (USP). FS2020’s USP is graphics and VFR. Fullstop. That’s the one thing no flightsim before could truely deliver. FS2020 can.
Everything else was a little less important. And 80-90% of all customers today (as opposed with more nerdy products like P3D) are people who either won’t know the difference or don’t care enough. The masses have to be roped in. The hardcore simmers who didn’t make the jump will come over time.
Also in general most stuff like systems, flight models, traffic and even the horrible ATC is still either better, or at least not significantly worse than a stock early XPlane 11 or FSX. If I were flying Airliner IFR. I’d probably be happier with P3D as well but at 35.000 ft the scenery is insignificant anyway.
But everything else: time will bring. The devs have shown that they want to fix stuff. I have seen many good software projects go under or been cancelled but with Asobe and MS I have enough trust that it’ll work out well. So I DECIDE to be happy with what I have and be patient for the rest. After all: without stuff to complain and new updates a perfect MSFS will probably grow boring fast 
You can do all that with MSFS as well. You can assign one or more buttons to go through the stations, I use the zoom wheel for scrolling (I think it even was the default setting but I am not sure) and you can use either the mouse (combined with the right button), joystick coolie hat or (if your TM has one) an integrated mini-joystick to look around the cockpit. I prefer the mouse because it’s the most precise option.
You know: before you condemn a product maybe ask first next time. You assumed a lot of stuff that’s supposedly not working. Like it’s often the case, many of your problems seem to be self-inflicted…
7 Likes
You are forgetting one important fact. Even the most experienced developer had to make their first ever simulation. They were not born with some innate knowledge. Go back through the developers you are thinking of, and visit their first ever title, instead of comparing their latest with Asobo’s first.
To put it another way, I look forward to Laminar Research’s first FPS or RPG.
That is true indeed. I’m too young to know how dedicated Aces Games was to FSX but Asobo is indeed willing to go forward and I think so is Jörg Neumann. My big concern however, and the bad preperation shows this too, is the extremely sloppy work they have delivered so far. Monetarily MS will always call the shots but it’s up to Asobo to research and translate ideas and knowledge into code. We’re lucky today that there are passionate groups like Working Title who not only correct and improve the sim’s biggest flaws but even go as far as work with Asobo officially. They have reworked the Garmins and will take care of the UI and ATC at least. Without someone like them we would still be stuck with bad avionics and a Reno DLC.
3 Likes
see that’s one of the things I’m really not seeing. Currently I believe for such a complex piece of software it’s working far far better than I would have expected when I saw the first pictures, videos and heard they were on a 10-year journey.
I remember many games over the years that were promising ideas but were thrown on the market before they were finished, were patched up and then the publisher lost interest because they wanted to sell the next installment of the series which was even more flawed. And as I said before: FSX was not a very good game when it came out BUT it evolved even though though the publisher (MS) abandoned it. Then it was picked up by Lockheed-Martin and became P3D. So in essence FSX has been on a 15-year journey already. And if you compare stock FSX 2006 with stock FS2020 (Aug 2020) even there MSFS was ahead.
I’m not sure but it is my impression that people are far less patient and expect far more perfection than is realistic. It’s a cultural thing. Especially with all the dozens of channels you can complain about something. And people complaining are more interesting than people who don’t. Basically I often feel that no one listens to you if you’re not complaining, so I guess public righteous outrage is a little too much en-vogue these days …
9 Likes
But what does that even mean?
10 years of continuous full time development by Asobo to the point that they have no time to develop other titles of their own? Or 10 years of a couple of paid for DLC a year?
The former seems unlikely.
1 Like
Sorry, but totally DISAGREE with you. However lucky you, since you still enjoy FSX…
2 Likes
Well, the first year and 3 months and the announcement of 12 scheduled updates over 2022 definitely indicate otherwise.
1 Like
I know there are lots of options to do all kinds of things that we will likely never use and views we don’t care about but keep in mind that in the default setup, most things work exactly as they do in FSX.
I have throttle on my old sidewinder, no quadrant, so for the most part I have use the keyboard for many of the same things I did in FSX. Like reverse thrust. Hit the asphalt, cut throttle and push/hold F2. Engines reverse and throttle up depending on how long you hold. Tap F1 when speed drops and throttle goes to idle. Exactly the same as FSX.
37 years of flight simulator experience here. I find the current version of MSFS the best ever and don’t understand all the negativity that is found on this forum. Yes, there are bugs. But, this is complex software that push the cpu, gpu, memory, disk and the network to the max. If the stock “add-ons” are not enough for you, then support the third party developers.
15 Likes