6 Sim Updates and 6 World Updates announced for 2022

Regular modest-sized updates are actually better for your process than rarer huge ones: it encourages you to have a clean, sensible deployment process including the ability to test and roll back, and to exercise that process to ensure it works.

If something breaks in a small release, it’s easier to find and fix. It’s easier to roll back the affected changes in production while you’re doing this, too. This is good news. You want this. :slight_smile:

(This was certainly my professional experience when we switched Wikipedia’s server software from a quarterly update cycle to a biweekly sync.)

Y’all should encourage them with this week’s open testing release for the weather/etc hotfix – this is EXACTLY what we want to see! Good stuff.

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Some folk seem to have the attitude I’ve already got the World update for where I live and like to fly so why should I care about Italy or Africa etc? … Fortunately Asobo don’t share this view.

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Why give up free beta tester.

At the end of the day it’s our user data that speeds things along, a closed beta for a project this size and instead of flying the globe you’d no doubt be looking forward to MSFS 2031 instead.

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Your sure right about Zendesk . I have found that thing completely useless .

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The bulk of the instability came from SU5. Prior to SU5, the core of the sim was all original FSX code. It was single threaded. It made bad use of memory. But it was what housed all the flight rules, etc. It probably accounts for 40% of the code for the simulator. XBox was never going to happen with this code. VR was never going to be able to expand with this code. Multi-monitor support was never going to happen with this code. Top Gun was never going to happen with this code. I doubt there was a single Asobo programmer that was excited about the work ahead of them having to rewrite all that code, but it had to be done to achieve any of their future goals. People will blame XBox, but look at the top requests that are for PC users. Multi-monitor support. VR. This work HAD to be done for any of the future to work out. With only a couple months to do it, Asobo rolled up their sleeves and got to it. Essentially, half the game you know was rewritten. And in that timeframe. Point blank, I am impressed that it went as WELL as it did, because monumental task doesn’t even begin to describe the work involved in that.

But yes, there were bugs. Lots and lots and lots of them. People were angry. And back then, realistically it was effecting a pretty severely high percentage of users. So I get the backlash. Asobo tried to do quick hotfixes, but that approach everyone agrees wasn’t working. They had to back off and do fixes in a more controlled manner, which was the sim updates.

Now, I know I will get disagreement here, but each sim update has made things more and more stable. Yes, an update may have introduced a new problem for you the reader, but it also fixed things for a greater number of people. How do I know? Because this forum was filled with thread upon thread upon thread about CTD after SU5. We saw the same on each of the Facebook group pages. With each sim update, that has gone down dramatically. There are still issues. There are some new ones that have popped up. Monday we have an open beta for the proposed hotfix release before the holidays. I expect a lot of the bigger ones will go away. There will still be things that annoy people. But each release has made things more stable.

There are some new features that have been added, that people complained about, and Asobo has reacted in the next update. For instance, night lighting. SU6 introduced new night lighting, based upon feedback from the community, Asobo made changes in SU7, and almost everyone is happy now with the results. So a lot of new features, they get presented, but then tuned based upon community feedback.

Extending the length of sim updates, you are going to have longer times before changes get implemented. So its a two edged sword. Releasing things too quickly can introduce bugs, but taking too long leaves people frustrated for a fix.

Now I know someone is going to point out, every sim update breaks things for the third party developers or your addons. That I will agree with. I’m thankful and appreciative for all the work our third party developers do. I know its been a rough few months. We still have one more sim update to go until we reach a point that post sim update 5 has been fully shaken out. Once the critical mass of bugs from the new code are resolved, I am hoping that things will be more stable from there out. Like I said, you have my sympathies, but please hang in there with us. We all really appreciate what you bring to the sim.

Offhand, I am going to say, I think the community is still in post SU5 mode. You can’t go a day without someone saying all world and sim updates need to stop until all bugs are fixed. The latest trend is now people are saying all updates to the marketplace should stop because those 5 people who package addons for the marketplace should be fixing bugs (lets just totally ignore the fact that they aren’t developers). Every few days you have some quality assurance person posting about their thoughts on process, or offering their skils to show Asobo the correct way to do it. Every couple days you have “pilot” stating how bugs are stopping them from training or teaching other students how to fly.

Sim Update 5 was rough. There isn’t a single person in the community, in Asobo, or in Microsoft that won’t deny that. I know it is one product that you all purchased, but at the end of July, a big enough percentage of the code was rewritten enough to almost make this like MSFS 2020 V2. It’s getting more stable for most people from the base program aspect. (Yes, a lot of our addons have needed frequent updates). We have one more sim update that is supposed to resolve at least most the mass of bugs introduced with SU5 and beyond. Lets see where we are with Sim Update 9. Its at that point that we should be introducing new features and past the SU5 shakedown. I hate to say it, but given the extent of work that SU5 was, and the short timeframe, there was going to be a shakedown period. Stop and think about it, the game itself took 1.5 years to write, and used original FSX as its core layer in the 1.5 year. Then in two months, they rewrote 40% of the code, which was the FSX code. 1.5 years to develop 60% of the code, 2 months to develop the other 40%. Even if they never did XBox, would all of you have waited 1.5 years for VR and multi-monitor support? Or some of the other features that needed this new core (I imagine the new modeling physics and the new weather really depended on this new core)? I know there will be a bunch of people who will say no, they would want it perfect, but you wouldn’t have understood what was involved to make it. You would have been on Asobo day in and day out wanting those features on the soon horizon.

And one other thing. I’m sure people will respond I’m being a fanboy. No, I’m not. I work as a senior programmer and project lead for a company that has since the very beginning of Fortune’s Top 100 Companies to Work for been on the list. Deeply ingrained in that culture, I’ve learned to take emotion out of things, I’ve learned to evaluate things objectively. So if you think I haven’t been hit by bugs, I have. For two weeks, I had to put down the game and play something else until a fix could be made. I bought Global AI Shipping and the DC6 on XBox. But understanding the complexity and enormity of what was done with SU5, I’m patient because I guess I kind of expected it would be this rough. It IS getting better. I read the forums everyday, I read the Facebook groups everyday. The volume and the severity of the issues has gone down. Asobo has a plan. The first two hotfixes did alarm me, but since then I have faith we are on the right path. Its just SU5 was big, it takes time to work through it all…

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I wish they would make it 2 quality SU and 2 WU’s with quality as a emphasis.

VR is still broken weeks after SU7.

How do you know this?

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There was a YouTube video where DigitalFoundry interviewed one of the Asobo developers right after SU5 release. Inside Microsoft Flight Simulator - Xbox Ports, Performance, PC Optimisations - The Asobo Breakdown! - YouTube

That video he doesn’t reveal what version of prior Flight Simulator code was used, but one of the Q&As Jorge verified it was Flight Simulator X code that was the core.

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Interesting post. Thanks!.

How would it be possible Asobo didn’t anticipate this when starting the MSFS project?. Presumably they had the expertise to take another direction if the future was not bright for such a code.

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I’d suggest the initial plan may have been to retain more FSX compatibility that we ended up with. If you think about it, P3D went the same way, and it was only from P3D5 that a lot of native FSX models started to break.

At the end of the day, Microsoft are looking for a revenue generator in this. With FSX and those before, after the initial sale, they made virtually no revenue from it, but the 3rd party market in addons, hardware etc was worth millions. The only reason we got MSFS is because Microsoft saw an opportunity to make recurring revenue from it. Further more, if they could shoe horn it onto an xbox, they would make even more revenue which would justify including it on GamePass. Its a double edged sword. I hate that so much Asobo development time seems to be being spent on addons and the likes of Reno… IMHO that should be left to 3rd parties… however, without it, and the revenue it brings, would there be an MSFS… unlikely. So we have a bit of a Frankenstein sim at the moment. My hope is that MS make enough money from it to keep it going, and that in time, it becomes a stable platform for as many as possible to enjoy, but it wont happen quickly.

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MSFS was multithreaded from launch. The big multithread change in SU5 was moving CoherentGT / glass cockpits off the main thread and to its own discreet thread, as it was bogging down the main thread significantly.

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I think you may have misunderstood that one, I’m pretty sure it was always Python but back then FSX compatibility was requested by Microsoft (however much of that was proving impossible) … Xbox and and SU5 was when they finally dumped hundreds of gigabytes of the “FSX spaghetti code”. For sure Asobo did make massive changes but it wasn’t a complete rewrite.

As Booked Throne pointed out the Devs had no previous contact with FSX code so why would they start using it instead of just leaving hooks?

I’m also going to point out that even for the best bilinguals it can be very easy to misconstrue a question being asked and none moreso than German/English because of similarities in language but differences in sentence structure. After many years in Germany I still get things wrong occasionally often.

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Why do you see Zendesk it as completely useless?

Is it that your expectations aren’t aligned with how it works?

It would be sad if you’ve stopped submitting bug reports because you’re not getting immediate (or, for that matter, any) feedback.

Zendesk is not meant to provide feedback to users. It’s job is to gather bug reports and send them to Asobo. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. If people aren’t submitting bug reports, Asobo is missing a huge chunk of information that is extremely useful to them. Do not, however, expect any feedback, or that your bugs will get fixed in your expected timeline. This is a huge project, and they will eventually get to those bugs they can reproduce in a timeline aligned with their own priorities.

If you (global you, not you in particular) haven’t given them enough information to reproduce the issues, however, don’t expect the bugs to ever get fixed. How could they?

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To be fair, as @anon90319164 mentioned, the future of WU’s will be quite different.

In the past, the WU’s included additional features as well as scenery. The team was pretty clear that that approach created a few scheduling problems. 30 days is NOT enough time to develop a SU, get it to the testers, fix the errors, retest, fix again before release.

Many beta testers have been quoted saying they were disappointed when they saw the final release of an update with bugs that were noted and logged during testing. The team’s future approach is to have the WU focus on scenery updates. This will allow the SU team a full two months to develop and test each SU. The goal is to get the update into the hands of the testers early enough in the process to allow for the fixes to be done.

It has been said time and again that the people that do scenery work are not the same that do core development. Even if there is some overlap, giving the core team 2 months to build an update and debug it can’t do anything but improve the process.

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Eyes read: “6 Sim Updates and 6 World Updates announced for 2022”

Mind interprets it as: “Thousands of bugs are coming my way”

But that’s OK, as long as Reno works most people won’t complain.

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An update roughly every 2 months (stability permitting) could be fine if Asobo changed their code management and testing methodology. They need very focused groups of testers that test specific aspects of the sim using a very strict system. A thousand people with zero relevant experience flying over their house with everything set to easy is useless. They need focused teams. For instance, one group tests avionics, one group tests physics, one group tests weather, one group tests scenery, one group tests audio, one group tests multiplayer, one group tests bush trips etc. And each group goes through a detailed checklist of very specific things to check and report back on. If necessary, the groups could even have a single group leader who culls and submits any problems found directly to Asobo for fixing.

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Forgive but I;m kind of new to this stuff . So if I have a question who should I ask? Some say that Zendesk . But you say they are really not responsible for answering questions
My main question was Are the bush trips fixed ?
So the question is and/or are Are they fixed? Are they going to get fixed? When? Why did they get broken? Why can’t you fix them?
Also there is talk at the forumns that they got fixed or partially fixed with Update 7 .
So in your infinite wisdom who should I have asked>?

Do you really think trying to divide beta testers into groups for particular subsystems, and having them perform specific test cases is really going to work? That is how you would test subsystems inside a business. But all testers are paid to perform their job. These are beta testers in the public. Some people will just want to get in the beta to test the things that interest them, then go on to play in the simulator. Results would be highly suspect that you don’t have some element of some users just saying Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass, Pass just to be done with it and sending in the results without actually testing anything in their list. And frankly, just doing that is going to involve many of those groups you suggested anyways. How do you do a flight that you aren’t going to experience sound, avionics, physics, scenery, etc. Each user is going to be doing different things that aren’t covered in a test case script. For example, I take off from Womderboom a lot. For a week, there was a cloud that obstructed visibility over the airport, but the rest of Pretoria and Gauteng providence was sunny and clear. Subsystem testing has already been done within Asobo, beta testing is about finding out what doesn’t work for users with their normal usage.

Precisely, it’s all ultimately about Quality Control which has been severely lacking since Day One. But the trouble is MS will have set deadlines for some updates (Top Gun DLC for example), so with past Deadlines that Update may well be poor and riddled with bugs going on recent history (SU5 with Xbox, SU7 with Reno).

Time and time again I and others have made it very clear that they need to improve the whole Beta Testing and Quality Control areas pre Update release, it always falls on deaf ears, lessons are not being learnt and that is a massive issue.

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