Just got a new build that I thought would be fantastic, although I’m getting the best visual quality that I’ve ever had, I’m not getting the expected frames or smoothness.
CAS: CORSAIR 5000D SERIES AIRFLOW Edition ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Chassis
CPU: AMD Ryzen™ 9 Processor 7950X3D 16-core/32-thread 4.2GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 144MB Cache AM5
CS_FAN: 6X 120mm Phanteks SK120 Digital RGB PWM FAN - high airflow nine-blade 500-1500 RPM Radiator Fans
FAN: CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT Liquid CPU Cooler - IPS LCD Screen 360mm Radiator - AF120 RGB ELITE Fans
HDD: 2TB SAMSUNG 990 PRO (PCIe Gen4) NVMe 2.0 M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 7450/6900 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 1200/1550k (Dual Drive (2TB x 2 (4TB Capacity)))
MEMORY: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory [+225] (GSKILL TRIDENT Z5 RGB)
MOTHERBOARD: ASUS ROG STRIX X670E-E GAMING WIFI AM5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi 6E, 2.5GbT LAN, (2)PCIe x16, (1)PCIe x1, (4)M.2, (4)SATA
POWERSUPPLY: 1200 Watts - Corsair RM1200x SHIFT 80 PLUS Gold ATX 3.0 Fully Modular w/ PCIE 12+4Pins Connector for PCIe 5.0 graphics cards
VIDEO: MSI GeForce RTX™ 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24GB GDDR6X Video Card (Ada Lovelace) [VR Ready] (Single Card)
G.Skill part F5-6000J4040F16G - seems not amd optimized?
I have updated the bios, game mode on, game bar installed and updated, latest chipset with all the options installed (amd_chipset_software_5.02.19.2221.exe). Power set to balanced but do not see an amd specific balanced profile. HAGs on. Using DLSS performance
2D
VR Varjo Aero 39ppd
and global ultra setting.
I have LODs at 200
Any ideas what can be done to improve it? How can I verify if core parking is actually working? Should I get different AMD optimized RAM?
I’d take a guess that your GPU isn’t busy enough, so it’s constantly waiting for data from CPU so giving you poor fps.
You are running this rug at a really low render resolution 50%? Why? You should be rendering at 100% (or maybe even higher). Keeping GPU busier will pull your system out of CPU limitation. The 4090 is likely just twiddling it’s thumbs waiting for data from your CPU. Up the render scale to 100% or 150% and see what happens.
It looks like a classic cpu/gpu load balance issue to me.
not using any ai traffic just live multi player. Flying around NYC though with several add ons including the samescene ny, birds, and some nearby add on airports that are heavy.
I have tried other anti aliasing settings and dx11 vs dx12 but in every case just not getting expected frames or smoothness though I am getting very detailed visual quality.
I would clear your community folder to try it at baseline. The DX and AA settings primarily change the graphics card load, not CPU. I wouldn’t expect those to make a difference in this case.
Since this is a new build, I would also run some benchmark utilities to make sure it’s running properly in general. Cinnebench is good for testing cpu performance, and cpuid hardware monitor for monitoring temps. Something like a bad cooler/cold plate mount could prevent proper cooling and impact performance.
You are in DLSS mode (performance) which is rendering at what looks like 50% then upscaling. Id try with DLSS off to begin with. Go for TAA then render scale at 100%, further upping it (it will be an option) if required. Dlss is mostly used to save gpu loading so you are deliberately underworking your gpu (significantly) while using your cpu too much.
The 4090 needs to be used/loaded and balanced correctly to remove the CPU overworking (mainthread limited) situation.
Nice system btw!
Other suggestions based on your settings. Use DX11 (it’s better for me than DX12 performance wise on a 5950X/3090), don’t use FS in windowed mode, go fullscreen, and have TLOD less than 400 ( a CPU loader) I see you have done that already, so keep at 200 until you come out of cpu limited situation by loading you GPU more via TAA/render scale.
That’s not how it works. The cpu usage is what it is when main thread limited. The cpu usage doesn’t go down simply because the gpu is loaded up beyond the main thread limitation. According to the above screen shots, the main thread frame time is at least 40ms. That means the gpu would have to be loaded to the point its frame time is higher than that to remove the gpu bottleneck, but that doesn’t suddenly mean frame rates improve. It means the frame rates get even lower due to the increased frame times of the gpu, and the CPU will remain at 40+ ms (if not higher, depending on what settings are increased).
There is plently of historical evidence on this forum of exactly the phenomena of CPU mainthread limiting when GPUs are not kept busy enough. There are probably 20 or 30 (maybe more) threads on mainthread limited situations. The loading balance between gpu and cpu has to be right or you end up with high end systems performing like low end systems which is exactly what the OP is describing here. DLSS is used to turn down load on GPU by rendering at a lower res then upscaling. It should only be turned on after a balanced cpu/gpu loading is achieved otherwise it may mask where the issue is.
Personally if I had this system I’d be running with a 4K res/monitor, DX11, TAA, render scale set at 100 (may increase if required to get rid of cpu limits), dlss off (to begin with), TLOD at 200, vsync on at 100%, with most other graphical settings on Ultra.
Once happy there I would only then tinker with dlss and frame generation to see if I could get a fps boost.
cinebench
multi core score 33992
single core score 1845
seems like my scores are significantly lower than what others are getting.
TAA in VR
This is NYC the heaviest place I fly. I have the Varjo Aero set on the highest ppd, and ultra settings in the sim with TAA and DX12.
Edit:updated screen shot, posted wrong one initially.
I also notice even on the welcome screen in 2d framerate is low
but interestingly when I tab to another app so the sim does not have the mouse I see the frames go up to 60 and the background turns green. If I try to capture the screen while it is green it gets the mouse back and turns red again and back to same low 30s.
I notice my ram does not support EXPO and does not seem to be optimized for AMD, and the AEMP tuner option is not available, could that be the problem?
Have any links to those threads, because it simply doesn’t make any sense that a CPU would slow down (longer frame times) if a gpu is not fully utilized, and I have not seen that on my system. And when it comes to doing cpu benchmarks in games, you specifically must turn graphic settings down to unload the gpu and create a CPU bottleneck to compare against.
If anything, unloading the gpu should allow CPU utilization to increase, but that means generating more fps, not increasing frame times.
If you search for “mainthread limited gpu latency” you will find them. I’ve fixed a few people’s setups now with this approach, including my own. It wasn’t my original idea but having read all those threads in 2021/22 and fixed a few systems it all became second nature.
Also search for @Grabber523 's posts on this subject as he was the original discoverer of this phenomena with evidence.
The situation with faster / better cpus & gpus with this sim is no different then with lesser cpus/gpus when imbalances exist they perform badly.
The cpu load also needs to be cleared further if you are going to throw AI traffic at it as it also loads CPU, but that is another story.
Is your BIOS setup correctly? If it is benching way below par for similar machines and you’ve only just got it take it back and tell whoever you bought it from to sort it out. If it’s a brand new brand/store built machine it shouldn’t be on you to have to start digging around to figure out what’s wrong.
MSFS is entirely counter intuitive in the way you need to set it up to get the best from it, but with a weaker system (5800x3D & 3090) I’m getting significantly better performance than you. It goes without saying though that you need to have at least 4K Ultra with TAA or DLSS set to Quality (I do that because I think the AA is better) with that machine. Looking at it though I definitely think you have something else going on.
I didn’t find any posts saying what you have claimed other than your own. What I have found referring to increasing the gpu load for improving performance refers to smoothing out stutters, not increasing fps. Even @Grabber523 seems to agree with this in this post.
The frame time of 40ms on the CPU means it’s taking 40ms to complete the frame calculation. Those calculations are the same regardless if you render in 1080p or 8k. If it’s 40ms at 1080p, changing the render scale doesn’t cause the CPU to suddenly complete the same operations in 2.5ms simply because there’s 16x more pixels being rendered.
I’d hate to send it back after having waited a month for them to build it and ship it to me. They built it with exactly the parts I chose. I doubt if they warrant it to meet a specific benchmark since it is a custom built pc. I’d rather try to solve it myself with help from you all and google.
I ordered a new ram kit that is AMD optimized and supports expo.
Keep in mind it’s very different systems being compared from 2023 to 2021/22, from memory many people had quite bad mismatches of cpu/gpu a year or two ago. GPU’s need to be busy. When they are under loaded they manifest in CPU mainthread limited situations. This GPU doesn’t look busy enough. You need to aim for a limited by GPU situation then when happy with perf dial back with things like DLSS if you want things quieter gpu fans etc.
Of course there could be entirely other reasons for this systems poor perf and busy CPU, but they wouldn’t be anything to do with FS and are going to be much harder to debug.
Hey.
I have almost same system as you which I received a few weeks ago (MSI RTX4080 is the main difference) and I also have weird issues and am not confident in it. I am going to send it back to the seller to try and figure out what is going on as I have gone as far as I can with my own limited understanding of troubleshooting.
For comparison, I did a CINEBENCH just now and I got this:
Multi Core = 35307
Single Core = 1991
I see the review you linked states 36366 and 2043, so we are both below but yours is worse off. I think there are definitely issues in this first batch of the CPU’s?
My problem seems to be memory controller, which I understand is on the CPU itself. My issue is as soon as I put 2 sticks of RAM in (I do have the G.Skill NEO Expo rated stuff but the system originally came with Kingston Fury Renegade but only 4x 16gb sticks so I purchased the G.Skill separately on my own to try to get 64gb working). Weird thing is it worked with 4x 16gb sticks for a couple of days after I first got it and all was tickety-boo. Maybe total coincidence but after I installed the latest Chipset pack (which from what I could see was same versions as was already on there), then it started to fail to post until I took 2 sticks out. Then I bought the G.Skill as I was recommended to get EXPO Ram but same thing (with different error), but it still won’t boot with 64gb in, but is fine with 1 stick of 32gb (or probably 2 sticks of 16 but I didn’t try going back to the Fury ram again as I want to get the EXPO working).
But today I have had a couple of complete lock-ups in FS even with just the 1x 32gb stick and at 5600Mhz setting. Bios is not playing well either - CMOS reset is not resetting now it looks like but I have given up chasing it - nightmare. Game freezes, no mouse any more on the whole system, but I can still Alt+Tab and Alt+F4 to close programs and shut down the PC so it’s just FS and my MOUSE that stop working?!
All very confusing especially when you don’t really know what you’re doing like me
