Please see my reply to chintz14. Relax and enjoy FS2020
Then you’re doing it wrong according to every CFI and the FAA. But you do you…
It’s a regional thing, I have not heard “clear prop” ever yelled in northern Europe, nor is it taught in pilot training there. It’s something we do around here, not something they do over there.
How you are supposed to see the beacon coming if for whatever reason you are crouched under the cowling I don’t know. I also don’t know how you are going to scramble out of there in the half second people allow from yelling clear prop to turning the key. Beacon on, “clear prop”, wait a few seconds, then start seems like the safest way. And not being around the propeller in the first place.
Clear Prop was, and I assume, still is, absolutely a requirement in the RAF.
PPRuNe “Clear Prop”
EDIT: Added smileys in an attempt to avoid this one getting flagged.
this tires into my request.
tugs are everywhere, and where they should not be.
Having some sort of global “clear away from plane” (to include non prop planes) when your starting up would help improve the realism this game is lacking.
Chris at AoA does the best CLeeEaaAaRr!
Oh and while I am thinking about it, those claiming large closed cockpitted aircraft don’t have to bother with the Clear! signal, must be flying with the wrong people. In my nn years as a groundcrew, I don’t ever recall being on a startup crew that didn’t get either a shouted Clear Prop, Clear to Start Engine n, Clear Rotors, a hand signal from the cockpit in case of excessive noise, or spoken via long lead and headset.
The “beacon”, or anti-col light is not a signal to start engines in my experience, although it is often used as a signal that they want to taxy. I am talking about military practices of course. Thy are far more safety concious, and don’t feel put out by having to give a signal. They also know that annoying the ground crew can have severe consequences, and that usually means purchasing beer.
Yell ‘Clear Prop’
Feature Request: Completed
You are missing the point.
It’s not about the essential clear signal, it’s about the actual yelling in e.g. a L-188 or C-130 cockpit.
The beacon is sometimes the only way to grab the groundcrews attentions that you want to start the engines.
I’m not missing the point at all. I don’t know about L-188, but the C-130 has a Loadmaster crewmember who is on a long line, and the pilot has a window that he can open if shouting or hand waving is required, any groundcrew present for the start will be aware of the situation, since he is there specifically for that purpose, and watching the cockpit or the loadmaster for signals, and it is his job to pass that signal on to those around with the correct marshalling gestures.
I would hope that he is also trained enough to be airside, or not be a complete idiot - that assessment would be at the discretion of the aircrew.
So somewhere down the line the pilot will be saying “Clear” or “Clear to start n” in some form or other, even it is quietly spoken into a mike or given as a hand signal. The groundcrew will reciprocate with the correct return signal, by hand or voice, and the relevant engine start would take place once the groundcrew or Loadmaster etc. has acknowledged the signal, and not before. any rotating beacon is there for a different purpose. I don’t see that it is a contentious issue.
The only time I recall needing a long lead and headset for a fixed wing start was a VC-10, which still required me to get these “Clear to start” commands for the extremely out of the way engines. It ain’t just about the pilot and starter crew, the signal and all the hand waving is there to warn others in the vicinity.
Oh, and no I don’t yell “Clear Prop!” here at all. I did my time, those groundcrew suckers can get their little virtual tug and shove it.
I don’t know if you are deliberately trying to misunderstand me, but again, it’s not about the clear signal.
Exchange your C-130 for e.g. a Dash8 where you can’t open any window.
Not at all, A dash-8 would use hand signals or a long lead & headset, so no need to shout anything.
See the starter crews long lead connected near to the ground power lead:-
Dash-8 start video.
In a GA aircraft with a prop, which is the subject of this thread after all, (not airliners and such), those that don’t signal “clear prop” are just being unsafe.
The point of it is that you generally can’t see all around you. EG if someone is kneeling in front of the engine to examine a leak, or check a nosewheel - he might be a bit peeved if the prop suddenly started turning with no warning, and that is the difference. If you have a startup crew and you can’t see their signal for clear, it isn’t clear. If you don’t have a crew, it is a warning to anyone around, and that is the whole point.
Bear in mind that I am speaking from the UK - your mileage may vary. See our rules for a bit of fun reading, although it doesn’t cover startup procedures:- UK Rules of the Air for Civil Aviation 2007
The light should be on if the engine is running, and if one is fitted (Rule 47). The marshalling signal for start in your example is in the section dealing with Marshalling signals from a pilot to a marshaller (Rule 63)
Further guidance here:- CAA Safety
I know this is just a sim, but it could at least be in the checklist as per the OP original request, to enforce good habits in those that are actually in pilot training.
That’s exactly what I’m saying since my very first reply!
Well, yes yelling in a closed cockpit would make you look foolish, and we wouldn’t want that
…But the signal should still be given via headset or hand signal to the start-up crew, rather than via the anti-col light as you said in that post. In your past careers, you might have used such arrangements as SOPs, and I can’t argue with that, but they are not universal.
But let’s agree that in GA a/c such as a C172, IRL, that “Clear!” is a necessary inconvenience.
No I haven’t. Btw, I’m out. Way too much time lost in this weird discussion.
@chintz14 : No way that I would have flagged your reply.
N316TS: please read back and re-consider…
Due to the sensitive nature of some of our dear readers, it may be wise to shout Clear Prop! Magnetos ON! and add an xxxx safety barrier around us.
May contain nuts
Or hide the text so no one has to read anything mildly irritating or disagreeable that might cause a rash.
Run for cover mate
May contain nuts… That’s Squirrels trade-mark
Open your room’s window and shout, Cleeeeeaaaaaar!!!