I’m new to Airbus and presently learning to fly the Inibuilds A320v2.
This relates to the stage on final approach just before landing.
The AP has just been turned off, say at about 400-500ft.
The FD and A/THR remain engaged.
Questions about this stage (AP off; FD & A/THR on):
How much manual handling of the control stick (if any) is required at this stage for an Airbus until just before the Flare? (I’ve seen videos of Boeing pilots vigorously manipulating the yoke moments prior to touchdown).
What exactly does the FD do during this stage? Maintain the G/S and LOC? (Noting that G/S and LOC soon get replaced by LAND in the annunciator).
Does the FD still control the G/S, but not lateral navigation (LOC), leaving the pilot to manage the latter until touchdown?
Well, I’m sure that someone around here will come up with a far more technically correct answer, but to get you started:
1: Personal opinion, “functionally” the same but practically less. Both the 73 and the 320 are aircraft in the same class. One might have bigger elevators but smaller ailerons (just a notional example…not saying it’s true) but they both need to fly in the same environments, similar weights, similar wingspans, etc and so they will fly similarly.
The big difference (to me) is the stick. You just don’t (arguably can’t/don’t need to) swing the stick around in the Bus like you do the yoke in the 73.
That’s why I like the stick!
Having said that, I always felt the Bus lands slightly flatter than the 73, depending a lot on which model, which flap setting etc.
2/3: That’s not an easy question to answer in a few words. But you can find reams of data out there about it.
In the interim, I’d suggest that you look at what the AP does when it autolands and you will get some idea of what it does when you kick the AP off.
To be honest, at that point, I’m mostly looking out the window!
Just as important, watch what the Autothrust does. Try levelling off, AP off, over the runway and see what the AT is trying to accomplish.
Sorry I don’t have time to give you a better answer; ironically I’m off to the sim myself at the moment.
IRL there’s never a lot of “stirring the stick” compared to the yoke. Small micro adjustments.
2/3) The FD keeps providing guidance for the mode you’re in. Since you’ve got the A/THR engaged, they will follow the FD. Meaning with the A/P off and the FD commanding a descent, if you decide to level off the A/THR will NOT advance to maintain your airspeed. The A/THR will remain at low power because the FD is commanding the descent. At Delta (and Northwest before the merger) our procedure was to command (announce) “Flight directors OFF” if you were not following its guidance. Both FDs had to be turned off.
My personal technique when I was hand flying the jet was to announce/command “Autopilot OFF, Autothrust OFF.” That way I could still use the FD guidance. Sometimes it was all three off until stabilized on final, then I’d command “Flight Directors ON”
I am now 8 years removed from all this, but at the time most guys/gals didn’t like turning the A/THR off. Then again I would hand fly from takeoff up to top of climb, and frequently around the traffic pattern at low density airports.
Thank you RhoBee99 for helping me to understand this better.
You mentioned your personal technique when hand flying the jet was to turn off the Autopilot and Autothrust, but leave the FD on, but sometimes all 3 off (ie. A/P, A/T and FDs).
Would you be able to share a little more on the rationale behind keeping one or more of them on or all 3 off? I’m just trying to place myself in a real world setting and understand how things work in real life.
I’m also curious to know what’s the most common situation in a typical ILS approach/landing - do most A320 pilots in real life have all 3 off, or just the A/P and leave the other 2 on?
So here’s what I saw as the most common RL practices regarding the use of automation.
Scenario 1: instrument approach in IMC (instrument meteorological conditions) or at night VMC. Most folks used all three until they broke out of the weather and visually acquired the runway; or somewhere inside the FAF (1500’ AGL or about 5 NMs on final) if at night in VMC. They would disconnect ONLY the A/P. This was the most common technique.
Scenario 2: day VMC conditions at a hub airport (an airline’s hub could be your competitors, just very busy with lots of arrivals). Somewhere around 5 NMs again the FAF or perhaps farther out if on the GS, folks would disconnect ONLY the A/P.
Scenario 3: day VMC at an “out station” like Minot ND or Rochester NY with very little traffic, and a visual on the airport, a few guys/gals I flew with would disconnect the A/P and A/THR and give me control of the “box” (MCDU the “McDoo”) on downwind or out of 10k’ descending toward the airport. Typically they would ask me to “draw a line” which meant to select the final approach segment of an ILS approach for example where the FAF was the furthest point on the line. I’m dialing in altitudes if ATC is stepping us down, setting the heading bug, and activating the approach when they tell me to.The idea being once you’re on final the FD provides useful guidance for a controlled 3 degree glidepath. Until then the FD is not useful…so perhaps you should just turn them both off until turning final.
In this case I tended to turn off all three, waiting until base or final to command FDs on.
Scenario 4: day VMC “slam dunk” approach (cleared for the visual when really high downwind abeam the threshold) like landing runway 1 at KDCA. Disconnect A/P and A/THR and turn off the FDs. Speedbrakes out…gear down…Flaps 1…Flaps 2 as your speed allows. The other pilots “draws the line” and activates it. Adjust your downwind, turn to base, (FDs back on) turn to final so you are stabilized NLT 3 NM (1000’ AGL) from the threshold configured Gear Down, Flaps 3 or Flaps Full, speedbrakes in and thrust IIRC ~50-55% (meaning normal approach thrust).
Thank you so much RhoBee for sharing your experiences and the RL scenarios you encountered. Very insightful! I will be reading through this many times for sure in order to more fully grasp these scenarios and understand how it all comes together when working with the A320s onboard systems.
Here are the only two bits of nostalgia that I actually used and kept. The handwritten High Energy Visual Approach was a required maneuver during our MV (maneuvers validation) simulator period. The intent was to make sure you could perform a “slam dunk” while roughly aligned with the final approach course while using all the automation. Half the time the instructor put the airplane higher and closer so you eventually had to turn automation off and back on (if you desired).
Many guys had difficulty with this, or perhaps let’s say they found this challenging.
This other chart I put together to help me understand the various gear, flap and speedbrake configurations to make a crossing restriction or getting down to a fix altitude. I made copies of it and gave to new FOs.
The left half is with Gear UP. The Config column refers to Flaps (F1, F2, F3) and Speedbrakes (Clean, Half, Full).
Thank you so much for sharing all this. I’m still a green horn when it comes to this and may have difficulty digesting it all, but I’m definitely saving it as a useful reference for later when I hopefully become more knowledgeable and able to assemble the pieces
You’re more than welcome. Here’s another tip that helps. Generally speaking, when descending from cruise, plan to be 30 NM from your landing airport at 10K’ AGL and 250 KIAS. That will work for all airliners/corporate jets. That gives you plenty of room (lateral distance) to get down and configured for your approach.
Out of curiosity, when you turn off all three (AP, A/T and FDs), what thrust will the Airbus default to, since the Thrust Levers may have been left somewhere between 0 and CL since the takeoff/ climb phases? If it is the case that you manually moved the levers upon turning off the A/T, what value do you select?
Once you physically pull the thrust levers back from the full forward TOGA position, they don’t move unless you physically move them. So when you click off A/THR (using the button under your thumb as your hand rests on the thrust levers) you will have to continually monitor and manually adjust the levers just like any airplane without auto-throttles.
How much to adjust or what power setting should you use? You need to get a ballpark number of the power required by noticing what A/THR gives you in similar situations. That’s what I meant by ~50-55% coming down the glidepath on final. On a hot day at a high altitude like Denver or Salt Lake City the thrust setting required could be 63%.
I retired from the airline gig 8 years ago (6 years earlier than mandatory retirement). I switched to only flying taildraggers, going for $100 hamburgers and towing gliders. Airliners in MSFS would be too much like work. Same reason I don’t fly the F-16 in DCS. But I do love the De Havilland Mosquito in IL-2 GB.
