Ability to hide the Yoke, what are the reasonings to change this in SU7? And why not give us the Option to keep it visible/hidden?

As per this post by @Jummivana yesterday (at time of writing) and in the Pre-Release Beta Forums (so not everyone may be aware):

I would like an explanation as to Why this change has been made please.

My Arguments:

  1. Choice, a simple Option would be nice as it worked just fine for months since the first VR Update release without issues and in many planes.

  2. For those of us without Yokes it “feels” weird to use a HOTAS Joystick and see a yoke move about.

  3. (Probably the most important point) Some switches are “hidden” by the yoke and it’s a PITA in some planes to get the right angle to use them, you have to Zoom here and there and it’s not ideal at all.

  4. According to other posters, other Flight Sims have this ability, like we used too.

  5. You can hide it in 2D, so what’s the difference with VR.

  6. If it’s something to do with VR Controller Support (the only thing I can think of that came with SU7 that may affect this), then you need to remember that not everyone uses VR Controllers; ergo it needs to be an Option.

  7. In many Racing Simulations there’s an Option to hide the steering wheel, some in VR prefer to hide whilst others don’t…that word again: Option.

I’m just trying to get to the bottom of why exactly this is a Design/Technical Reason and what that reasoning is exactly, in my eyes it’s (yet another) a step backwards for VR Users from what we had before and for no apparent specific reason.

If MS/Asobo can give an explanation that would be great, otherwise it’s left for us to theorise, at this moment in time I can see no real Technical Reason for it other than the aforementioned VR Controllers potentially causing an issue, really it’s only the “Design choice” which baffles me.

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IMO the issue may be that when someone uses VR controllers to grab a yoke, they may sometimes be pointed at the “disable yoke” area and instead of grabbing would hide the yoke. And instead of making it an option (or making the whole yoke VR control and option) developers decided to just disable it, breaking one of the game lessons in the process. It’s just my guess.

I think there should be an option that enables/disables VR yoke control or and another one that enables/disables hiding the yoke. They can be combined into a single option. That would solve the problem, if that’s what it is. If I guessed wrong, the option is good anyway. Accidentally grabbing the yoke when trying to operate a switch can be quite violent and a bad experience. There should be an option to disable yoke VR control for those of us with hardware yokes and joysticks (i.e. most users).

BTW if yoke becomes “invisible” by controllers and won’t be a highlighted spot it will be easy to operate switches behind it with a “laser” pointer, because the “laser” would go straight through the yoke.

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I think the bottom of the issue is that the MSFS team at Asobo probably has a to do list that’s far too long for the capacity of people they have. It seems Microsoft or their management puts them under a lot of pressure to release the updates in time and fails to plan enough time for testing and bug fixing in their schedule. That’s why most of the bugs that have been reported during beta testing of an update have never been fixed before its public release. This is not something that’s entirely specific to MSFS, but can be seen throughout the whole game industry. When was the last game that didn’t have at least some annoying bugs on release day? Probably around the PS3/360/Wii era?

I guess in this case, someone’s discovered that the yoke would often be accidentally hidden when using VR controllers, and the quick fix was just to disable the option of hiding the yoke. This was probably done by just editing or commenting out a single line of code. The respective programmer likely thought about making it an option, but implementing a new menu setting and linking it to the code that hides the yoke would have required a lot more work and testing, so the task went probably far down to the “nice to have” section of their to do list.

Equivalently, their fix to the broken tutorial will just be to skip the section where they prompt you to hide the yoke by commenting out the respective line of code.

Not having the ability to hide the yoke is an inconvenience for some users, but nothing game breaking, so it’s not a priority for them.

On an unrelated note, I really like the side-effect of the VR controller implementation that the yoke animation is now responding linear to the input axis instead of this crazy exponential behavior we’ve had before. Makes VR even more immersive when the virtual yoke movement matches the physical yoke.

I played Horizon Zero Dawn on PS4 (almost) on release day.
I don’t recall any bugs at all.

On the subject of the yoke visibility in VR. Yes, this does sound like a design fudge they made in order to accommodate VR controllers.

Which brings to the question. Were people even asking for this?
I love VR but would never have asked for VR “controller” support in a sim. The idea of flying for a couple of hours holding my arm in space rather than resting my hands on actual controls. Ergonomics of that are horrible to even think about.
With my hand on throttle and stick I don’t have to consciously think about where they are. They seamlessly translate my thoughts of where I want to go into action with a comforting degree of physical feedback.
With a hand hanging in the air I imagine it’s a delicate dance of "is my hand and it’s virtual controller in the right place in 3d space to properly interact with the virtual yoke or do I need to keep looking away from where I’m going to check?

Surely actual hand tracking would have been the bolder design decision and more suited to simulation anyway?
That’s something that I could at least imagine using, but probably more for easy switches than on a flight control.

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The ability to manipulate yoke and throttle with VR controllers is something that has been implemented in other flight sims already and was requested by users who are used to it, and I don’t see any downside for us who are just not using it. I just don’t care if it’s there, I won’t complain about a feature I don’t use. If you are flying a lot with the autopilot and most of your interaction with the aircraft revolves around pushing buttons and manipulating dials, then you only need the yoke for take off and landing. I can imagine there are people who don’t justify spending hundreds of $$$ for a collection of devices they use for 5 minutes in a 2 hour flight.

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I also prefer to see an option that gives me control over whether the yoke is hidden or not. Simply removing the capability and consequently breaking the FIRST LESSON for new pilots is, well, dumb. If they are concerned with people accidentally/inadvertently hiding the yoke, then the ‘hide’ hotspot should be set so that it is not proximate to other controls, or it should have a confirmation dialog to prevent hiding it in the middle of an approach (or whatever).

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I am mobility impaired and NEED to be able to see switches BEHIND the yokes in VR. I fly with yokes hidden at all times. This used to work, but since SU6, I’ve had to turn back to X-Plane and Prepar3d to fly in VR! Please help a guy (perhaps many) out who just want to get as close as we can to the same experience as others just like we can in other sims!

Or can I have my money back as a sim I used well over a year is now useless to me because of a feature which was decidedly removed?

Please don’t cut us out!

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As stated elsewhere, I don’t have them ability to be able to use VR controllers. I use a VR headset so I can see in 3D and look around me. I have to use game controllers for everything else. And if I’m not using a game controller that I’m using a trackball instead of a mouse. I need to have the ability to hide the yolk. Otherwise this thing is useless to me and I should get my money back because it no longer functions the way it did from the day that I got it and without explanation from the developers.

The yoke can be removed in 2D and it persists when tabbing back in to VR. That should help with the lesson.

But I mostly like to keep it in VR view. I get positioned so my controller is in the same location and it gives me good visual feedback.

Apart from Micail’s suggestion, in 2D hitting space will raise your position and let you see over the yoke which I prefer and use a lot in some aircraft. Providing it also works in VR if a keyboard is a problem maybe you could assign landing view to a mouse button.

I don’t think you understand. I don’t use my computer in 2D; I do not use a keyboard for most things. My computer is voice activated, and I have a mouse, yoke and throttle and other than that. I use everything completely in VR. I have someone assist me to get things up and running and once I’m in VR, I’m on my own. I don’t want to have to call my assistant to help me out if I want to change aircraft or anything else that would require me to switch to 2D.

SU8 Beta; The ability to Hide the Yoke in VR is back (only tried with Cessna 208B Caravan), thank you for listening Devs

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