About the "Quality of Service"

User Support Hub Aircraft & Systems
1

I got the Premium Deluxe Edition, as i wanted to Support the Development and get as much great content, they offered in this edition.

More nice planes is always better, more nice scenery also.

But in the meantime i have to say, i really question myself, if the Premium Deluxe Edition was really the best choice, as it really does not deliver Premium Deluxe Support for the added content.

The first thing, i had to learn was the fact, that all those airports, that got added by the higher editions do absolutely not have the realistic look and feel, as these 3rd party addons, that where to be seen in lots of marketing videos.

3rd party airports have much more love and life added like accurate buildings, and planes on the ground, Premium Deluxe content has just some more buildings placed than the “Vanilla” version. Just as an example, i spent more money to purchase the Premium Deluxe to have a nicer version of LOWI added… but this version of LOWI is so poor, i also purchased the 3rd party LOWI addon, which overhauls the scenery of this nice airport much better.

What´s even more annoying to me is the fact, that planes are updated even less than sceneries in MSFS.

SU9 added a really great feature, the CFD simulation (Computational Fluid Dynamics). This feels and handles like a big step forward for realism within the sim. But this great feature is only added for the C172 with the glass cockpit (G1000 version). No other ingame plane is getting this CFD added.

What kind of user-support is this? We spent a lot of money for the sim, but now the devs are expecting some modders or 3rd party people to polish MSFS/Asobo content like planes with expanded simulation features? Not even the steam-cockpit version of the 172 did get this CFD features updated.

What do YOU guys think about this situation? Is it acceptable for you, that the sim might evolve into a toolbox with more and more features, but those features won´t be applied to all planes, maybe at a later state regions/countries/continents, … Who knows?

4 Likes
2

Ok, maybe i should try to explain in a bit more “streamlined” way.

We all purchased the sim, which was advertised as a project for the next 10 years, being improved more and more.

So, there will be “things” and features, which will come over time, making the sim better and better.

That´s great, no question.

We purchased an edition of the sim, having some more content included, depending on the “size” of the version we purchased (Standard, Deluxe, Premium Deluxe).

We get a lot of planes in the base version, but some more of them in the “bigger” editions.

That´s also great, no question.

The last 2 big System Updates (SU8, SU9) also integrated new technologies into the “sim engine” to make the “feel” of flying a plane more realistic.

That´s also great, no question.

But this is also, where the problem starts:

These new added features, to make a plane “feel more realistic” in the sim, where only applied to one or two of the planes we purchased from MS/Asobo.

This means, MS/Asobo just updated (or “modernized”) a tiny portion of the content we all purchased. The majority of our purchased planes stays “untouched” and did not get these “modernized” and “improved” technologies added/applied/updated.

So it looks - at least for the moment - that they promised to improve the sim more and more for over 10 years, but they started to also “forget” to do this for the majority of the content, we purchased already.

Yes, 3rd party developers can use these new technoligies to improve their own payware content. But what about the content we already purchased from MS/Asobo directly?

This is not the “deal”, we wanted to get into, i suppose for the most of us.

If MS/Asobo continues this “new strategy”, it could happen, that more and more things “in the background” of the sim can get improved, but we don´t fully benefit from it for the content we already purchased from MS/Asobo.

Like maybe getting some totally new weather system technology included, but it could be only applied for a small portion of our content, like just having it for California.

Or some new and more realistic water effects… but maybe they are just added for the Carribean, nowhere else.

Do you get the point, i am trying to make here?

New technologies must be applied to all the already purchased content from MS/Asobo. Otherwise it may be some payware addon, like maybe the integration of Helicopters. But it should NOT be the way, as it is currently, that only one or two planes, we already got from MS/Asobo can benefit from new technologies and the rest is left alone.

To be perfectly sure: we purchased some planes via the edition of the sim. All these planes should get the same love and technological updates, not only one or two of them.

Otherwise the sim should be sold - much cheaper - with just one or two planes. These must be technologically updated “automatically” by MS/Asobo.

But do NOT leave existing content behind by not applying new features to it.
The planes are just an example of what´s currently going on, but this all goes for any content we already purchased. Just to be sure.
:wink:

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There are still some big obvious glaring issues with the new G1000 version. It’s possible the steam version of the plane flies more accurately without those new features, I don’t know.

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Think about it this way: If they added CFD to all the applicable planes the first time around, how much more troubleshooting do you think would be required as opposed to adding it to one plane, perfecting it then applying the “Final version” to the rest of the applicable planes?

To be honest, no. What they’re doing when it comes to adding a feature in on a small scale before adding it to the rest of the game is pretty standard when it comes to development. If they wanted to test a new water mask algorithm, why not try it in a specific region before applying it to the rest of world? Its like i was saying just before: Imagine how much more troubleshooting would be required if they added a new technology to the whole game before testing it on the small scale?

5

I don´t know, I guess there are as many different views of this as there are users…

I bought the deluxe version, and don´t regret it. But I think my expectations and motivation were much different than yours.

I had a very specific reason to buy this version: it had a bespoke version of Madrid Barajas (I´m spanish, so it is my “natural” hub). And in fact, in my opinion, it was one of the best airports in the sim, worth the upgrade price for me.

Sure, I knew sooner or later a third party developer would offer something better, but I didn´t know when, and what I bought with the deluxe version, was not having to wait for that 3rd party version to come. And I think it was the right choice, and worth the aditional price (I didn´t need a new morgage on my house to afford it, come on, it wasn´t that much more expensive…).

The key point is… I didn´t expect the premium version was going to be something that evolved in a way, that prevented me from buying 3rd party products later on… I knew a better Barajas would come along the way, and was very happy when LVFR released their airport. Of course I bought it, and the fact that it was better than the one on the deluxe version was not a dissapointment to me. I didn´t think Microsoft / Asobo had let me down with an inferior product. I saw it as the natural way sims evolve.

I have been using simulators since FS98, and to me, the software released by microsoft is only the backbone around which, the real simulator is built, via addons. I didn´t expect FS-2020 to be any different. I couldn´t use the default simulator for long. Neither the airports (bar a few of them) nor the aircraft are up to what can be bought from third party developers.

I can´t care less about aditional aircraft included in the premium versions. Always knew I would have to wait for the community to develop something more complex. In fact, if I have “survived” the first two years of MSFS, is thanks to the FBW team and their A32NX and Aerosoft´s CRJ.

Now, with several very detailed airliners coming, things are starting to become interesting.

Meanwhile, the deluxe version was a good investment, because it gave me something I wanted, in a moment when there was no alternative. Expecting more than that is, in my opinion, unrealistic.

Best regards.

6

As far as I can tell, LOWI was included in the Standard Edition. Addtional buildings and scenery may have been added in various World Updates. Since August 2020, there have been 17 World and Sim Updates and several Hotfixes for all users.

3rd party developers are able to concentrate on their offerings and are able to provide new features, aircraft, and landscape and improved quality that are not in the base sim. Personally I am amazed and pleased at the number of addons, both free and pay.

The Release Notes for each update contain a lot of information about fixes and enhancements. It might be helpful to search the release notes for specific items of interest.

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Well, if they added some new features “step by step”, first testing them on a smaller scale or region or amount of planes, optimizing things and THEN roll them out to the whole world of things (like ALL regions or all MS-planes), there wouldn´t be anything to say against it.

Yes, that´s how modern days software development works.

It´s just, it definitely does NOT look the way, they are rolling out new features like that step by step.

SU8 added some nice new propeller physics. For GA planes, only added for the 172 glass and i think also for the 152. Just for the standard version planes, not for the 172 steam, not for the 152 Aerobat.

Absolutely nothing announced, that they are gonna add this feature to the other planes step by step.

SU9 added CFD features, bzt just for the 172 glass, not for the 172 steam. Also no info at all, they would roll it out for the other planes.

If you see the sim just as a toolbox, offering a library of features, 3rd party devs can implement into their own products if they want, then that´s one thing.

There are very quick devs like GotGravel, who quickly where able to implement the new features (SU8, SU9) into their products. But MS+Asobo does not have the ressources for this? Honestly? Or maybe just no interest in servicing their other planes? No idea about their backgrounds…

Quality of airports between Standard, Deluxe, Premium Deluxe and 3rd party differ also per region. I´ve seen small and mid-sized airfields and airports, that looked much nicer than intl. airports of some other regions. Also the opposite may occur, no question.

Yes, LOWI was in the standard edition. It´s one of the biggest airports in my home location. But all our “big” airports are implemented yery “poor”. The Premium Deluxe LOWI looks better than tha standard LOWI. But still, you have no “life” in the scenery.

Anyway, this all is drifting a bit into off-topic.

Back to the center: there is no single indicator, that MS/Asobo will really “service” or “polish” all their planes with those new features. I understand, that this won´t be too much of a topic for those of you, prefering to fly the big birds. Small(er) GA planes handle very different and seem to be much more realistic because of those new features (like SU8, SU9). I am one of those, who only like to fly GA. So it improves the sim-experience very well, when such features are added and i can benefit from them in the planes i use.
If it just would be able to really be used in all of them…

And yes, thanks a lot for the suggestion about reading the release notes. I can assure you, i had this idea from day one on.

If you read those release notes you can see in detail, that these fearures i mentioned (SU8, SU9) where ONLY added to one or two GA planes and nowhere else. Yes, reading really helps a lot to see, what´s added and what wasn´t…

If everybody is ok with this, it may happen, it becomes more and more of a standard procedure to implement new things only into a small(er) portion of the included content. Just like a toolbox, getting some new tools from time to time. 3rd party devs can benefit from those new features, if they wanna create new addons or maybe upgrade their existing ones with those new features some day. Maybe. If they like.

Question: if you purchase something, like a new computer, would you accept to simply purchase a new one every couple of months, because there was some updated operating system - “a better version available” - and your pc won´t get any service to also use these new features? Or would you expect to be able to use your purchased pc also with the updated features for some time?

I really don´t wanna offend anyone… but i´d maybe love to have some of you as my customers, it seems…