with my trusty T16000M’s rudder axis possessed once again, I believe it is time to look for an alternative.
While a complete setup with a separate throttle and pedals would omit the z-axis problem, which seems to be a common one with every manufacturer, I have to settle for a twist rudder to limit the amount of hardware on my desk. Are there any decent alternatives out there, at a reasonable price? Right now, I am thinking of a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, as I have good experiences with Logitech’s FFB wheels, it is not a Thrustmaster product, which seem to be known for this very issue, is cheap, even if it will develop the same issue, and I dislike my T16000M’s overly strong centring spring.
I’d stay away from the Logitech stuff. I had the X52/pro because I wanted a thruster as well and the axes on the joystick were pretty bad. I upgraded to a honey comb setup (Alpha/Bravo) which I’m guessing is out of your price range, but the quality difference was honestly mind-blowing.
I have used one of these with FS2020, and found it to be a most excellent joystick. I actually use a Logitech Yoke now, but I am still very fond of the Extreme Pro, and use it for games such as Elite Dangerous and X4.
The 3D pro might be good, but the X52 was not. What’s interesting is I believe the X52 is a holdover from Saitek, so it’s very possible that the 3D Pro was made internally and to a higher quality.
@RATTMAN@Nyx1819@PumpaCat
Thank you to all three of you for your answers!
I’ll check review of the Velocity One, it certainly seems to fit the bill. Reading of the X52’s deficiencies, I am even more inclined to go for a budget option, as price does not necessarily equal quality, it seems.
Looks a good choice as it would appear to have Hall effect sensors so should last however you could also buy three Logitec 3D pros for the same money (they also have good reviews) The Logi’s might not have quite the same quality and the pots can wear out (and can be replaced by a skillful hand) but they do have a lot of buttons to assign.
Thank you.
Those were my thoughts, too. I bought the T.16000M for that very reason, only for a potentiometer axis to fail on me.
In the end, I went for the Logitech option. While the Turtle Beach stick seems to be a great deal, judging by reviews and my own experience, all brand-new joysticks are good, only to fail within weeks, months or perhaps years. If it turns out to be a solid option for people in future use, it will replace my new Logitech joystick in the future.
Update: I bought and tried a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro, but its jaw axis was wobbly to begin with (in terms of resistance, not potentiometer - pun not intended), and only got worse after two short test flights. Effectively, it is not much better than my broken T16000M, and I am going to return it.
Since it seems every budget Thrustmaster option is effectively the same as a T16000M, with the same inherent issues, and Logitech’s option is no better, I have to look for other, more upmarket options. I would buy the Velocity One in a heartbeat, but it is sold out in Germany as of now.
Which sensitivity and curvs to you use for your Logitech 3D Extreme Pro? I find it to be very pitchy (up and down), not sure if this is very realistic or if the behaviour should be loose sort of speak.
best budget joystick. and i despise logitech products
Just read you got that and didn’t like it. Gladiator NXT is probably your next best one. On par in price with the t16k and lots more buttons and runs with higher end joysticks
@BoxiestAbyss920
I used linear “curves” for testing, and its deficiencies compared to a well-used T16000M were recognisable. They most likely are not the best, but a new joystick should not deliver worse raw-ish data than a used one, I think.
@Portalearth420
I’ll check it out - thank you! At first glance, it does indeed look like a great option.
@PANTSZER
Thank you, this is a great resource to get an overview.
I had a Thrustmaster HOTAS when I started using MFS, and I have since upgraded to the VKB Gladiator NXT Evo. After a couple of hundred hours, the TM had become notably sloppy and was short of useful buttons. I’d also had to open it up several times to re-grease and tighten various things.
When I was looking to get a new stick, I tried out both the TM16000 and the Logitech X56 but the VKB is so far ahead of these devices you would not believe. If you can possibly hold on and save up for one (or if they have any deals around Friday), then I would seriously recommend that route. The build quality, feel of all the controls, quality of the sensors and the sheer range of adjustability (different spring rates + adjustable dry clutches) is in a completely different league. In base form, it is also cheaper than the X56.
It has the twist rudder and built-in throttle you’re looking for so it will work as required from the start, but it can also be upgraded to so much more in the future. In addition, since the springs can be removed completely, it lends itself to flying helicopters much more easily in that configuration.
It does not come with presets in MFS, but the controls are all logical and easy to assign. In addition, the VKB configuration software is powerful and allows adjustments to all curves, sensitivity, dead zones and even the LED colours and brightness. I didn’t find it intuitive at first, but there is plenty of guidance on their support site, forum and YT.
For me, this stick made flying so much more controllable and enjoyable, and it has been faultless for over 500 flight hours so far. Should you wish to expand it in the future and if you can find the space, VKB offer rudder pedals and additional modules for throttle, autopilot, flaps & gear etc, which can be mounted separately or on the side of the Gladiator.
thank you very much for your detailed post. Having done some more research yesterday, any cheaper option, or one of comparable price, clearly has its pitfalls. There just isn’t a better budget option than the T.16000M, and I refuse to once again buy a product knowing it has failed, and will fail again. Therefore, given my budget is a rather philosophical one (being a simracer with a dated FFB wheel, I don’t want to spend “too much” on a joystick), it seems I have to get the VKB joystick.
There is one question left, however: Does the “WWII COMBAT EDITION” (which is slightly cheaper and looks better to my eyes) also feature a hall sensor in the twist axis? It says " * Lockable Twist (Z-axis) with contactless MaRS sensor" for the “SPACE COMBAT EDITION”, but “Built-in contactless twist adapter” (whatever “adapter” means in this case) for the “WWII COMBAT EDITION”.
