Ag Aviation - Sat-loc / Guidance / Advanced features

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Hello,

Tried the Ag aviation, and it’s a lot of fun, importantly its very hard to lead into the spray area having to sight the map, utilizing the previously sprayed path to guide yourself onto a run. I’d like to see a Sat Loc feature, or a feature of the likes incorporated into the dash efb for guidance and setting up spray runs whether your choosing a-b lines and spray runs like (back to back, racetrack, etc.).

Can we please look into more features relating to the Ag Aviation for spraying including an advanced mode, new features like;

-applicable flow rates for flying, especially based of the airspeed and wind driven pump, utilizing the tank quicker for load and refill depending on what’s been sprayed.
-Solids (fertilizer) Liquids (Fungicides, Herbicides, Pesticides).

Thanks,

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I second this. I’m an ag pilot in real life, and in my option they really missed the mark on the ag flying in game. Like you said, there’s dire need for some sort of guidance system. Doesn’t have to be an accurate AgPilotX, SATLOC, or anything. Just a simple way to keep lined up.

The fact that it forces you to fly at 110 knots is just dumb. Ag airplanes are in MPH anyways. But an AT802 usually sprays at 160mph so I don’t know where they got 110 knots from. Doesn’t make any sense.

I don’t know the size of the fields in the game because it doesn’t tell you. But filling up an AT802 halfway gives you 400 gallons. So you have one small field, you load up 400 gallons, somehow only spray off 2% (I guess we’re spraying at a really low rate) of that and land with almost 400 gallons. Doesn’t make any sense. Why can’t we just take what we need and spray it off? And why can’t we have multiple fields per job? So lame.

And if I had an AI voice in real life that nagged me every time I turn the spray on slightly late, or fly slightly faster than some arbitrary speed it sets for me I would be an ag pilot. So annoying. It’s so dumb.

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Totally agree, hopefully they will expand on it, also it appears the spray swath isn’t matching with the sprayed area on the map, its significantly smaller.

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you will find equally as many with knots IAS as you will with MPH IAS, if you count other variants, then most would be knots IAS.

given the ASI will clearly say KNOTS or MPH depending on the type of miles used on the lower part of the face.

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Yeah, I was wondering about the swath width too. It seems like it’s a little narrow in the game. Like I said, with a realistic swath width and if you could actually spray at 160mph like in real life you’d knock the fields out a lot faster. And multiple field, multiple load jobs would be really cool.

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and yet if you got yourself over to youtube would see they spend most of their time spraying specific things at 120mph to 140mph

and well 115kts is 132mph which splits the common speed range.

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I know what you mean. Where I fly ag we’re usually spraying at 2GPA, which isn’t a very high rate. So the flow control on an AT802 going 160 over the field isn’t going to have any problems keeping up with that. In the A188B I fly I’m usually flying around 130-140mph while spraying (it has an IO720 STC). So maybe for higher rates you’d want to be going slower. But I don’t know from experience. Personally I’ve only flown dry fertilizer and liquid fungicide / insecticide at 2GPA. For both of those the AT802s fly at around 160mph and I fly around 130-140mph in the 188. Even still though the game doesn’t tell you your rate, how many acres you’re spraying, ect. So it’s impossible to do the math and figure it out. For some reason they always load you up with 400 gallons and you end up landing with like 350 on board. Which is silly. They should just load you with what you need.

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Are you an ag pilot in real life too? If so what / where do you fly? Just curious.

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no, but I am not the one bleating 160mph.

sure 160mph when large expanses and minimal obstruction, thus long periods (relative) above the crop at application height.

speed will be less with smaller fields with more obstructions with less time at application height, and which just change the application rate to whatever the best airspeed is on a filed by field basis.

youtube has plenty of in-cockpit footage from within AT-802, with both commentary and a clear view of the ASI, where you can see footage of wide expanses of multiple corn fields in gently undulating terrain with minimal obstructing being sprayed at 160mph as you say, to the much more typical and common in this world of smaller fields with obstructions like trees along 1 or more edges where spray speed is 120mph to 140mph.

just as google has plenty of images on 802 cockpits showing both knots and MPH on the ASI of AG use 802 (not fireboss), just as you will find footage of AG 802 being used in Europe from American AG spraying companies during the summer fire season showing knots, given dump gate can dump the tank much like a dedicated fireboss, though they have to land like regular aircraft to get refilled, but again that can be done at high cycle rates with dedicated ground equipment for the purpose.

if you think about it logically a single user or single farm aircraft, then it matters not if its MPH if that is the only aircraft they fly, on the other hand if you are running fleets including multiple types and operating them beyond the USA too, then for commonality sake and that of safety standard knots makes more sense, as most of the world uses knots (or km/h in some cases).

and well lets face it, any GPS you use, variable rate application computers etc etc etc will all natively be metric regardless of what they may display to you, and can be calibrated to whatever ASI units you want if they are not taking airspeed from the GPS but a RAT of some form too.

there is no imperative to use MPH, it is just personal preference.

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100% behind you here, the half dozen of us who care about ag aviation are all in support of you lmao!

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LOL Yeah, that’s a good point. Not many people care about it.

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When I’m in an AT802 in the Midwest I should be able to fly at 160mph and have my airspeed be in MPH. That’s all I’m saying buddy lol.

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dont engage with a know-nothing rivet counter. the missions are ■■■■ built by people who dont know anything either. its a positive step towards a good framework tho, and hopefully with the proper tools the community can take up some efforts with this and get it to a respectable state.

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ok,

but further going by the context of what we are doing in-game, which is liquid spraying.

the consensus of 802 pilots seams to be, 160mph is fine for granular applications, but with liquid application things are very much wind dependent on days you are spraying, as above 150mph, the droplets from the nozzles start to breakup and become more aerosolizes, thus are subject to any wind to a greater degree, as they fall slower thus are subject to more drift thus more inconsistent application, and in reality days with zero wind are less common that days with wind that is within the limitations of effective spraying via aircraft.

thus liquid spraying and taking actual 802 pilots at their word, the sweet spot for liquid application in relatively low wind is 140 to 145 mph when NO other factors are at play (small fields, obstacles, manoeuvre limitations etc).

thus extrapolating the above, given live weather in-game, and field sizes that range from small with many trees at their edges to large flat expanses, a target speed must be picked that represents some amount of obstacles and some amount of wind, and the average size of field used for the missions, then the speed is going to be something less than 140mph.

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some of us are capable of listening to what actual 802 pilots say while they are actually in the cockpit of an 802, actually flying it, while actually spraying, and giving actual commentary on why they are doing specific things etc, given they actually post the videos on youtube.

meaning people should they chose to do so, could actually find them themselves, and actually educate themselves from the words of actual 802 pilots while actually viewing the goings-on in the cockpit.

now I don’t disagree this basic framework could be expanded upon.

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some of of are actual ag pilots, or are 3rd generation pilots, or have close friends who actual fly these aircraft. as much as i love patrick’s vids - it doesnt replace a direct discourse and personal relationship with someone who has 10k hours in the 802, or has actually owned and operated ag flying services.

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Forgive my ignorance, I used to be a mixer/loader and am a fixed/rotary pilot myself just not ag but love it so much I will eventually get stuck into it.

During my time mixing, I thought airspeed didn’t matter as long as the speed didn’t disrupt the droplet size from the nozzles. Also, the rate of the chemical to be applied to the field is all calculated when mixing into the tank with a certain amount of water makeup for that application, isn’t the wind driven pump just pumping the chemical conducive with the airspeed its being affected by?

Correct me if I’m wrong I’m all ears for learning.

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the nozzles are swappable depending on mix, gpa needed and flow rate/speed, and have evolved with the increased speeds of the turbine birds - the deal is this - ag flying is not a flying job, its an application job and the faster you can go, the more acerage you can cover - so, you push the throttle up on takeoff and leave it at max (temp or torque depending on temps) and leave it. if the money lever isnt down, you’re losing cash.

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should have mentioned to you - modern systems take into account the ground speed of the aircraft, and have electronically controlled metering to keep the application rate constant regardless of GS - you may have a 20kt headwind one way into the field, and a 20kt tailwind the other - the metering system will accommodate this.

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