Regarding the pricing, please consider that we’ve already released the H135 for free and that we will continue to support that aircraft with compatibility patches so it will always exist as a free option for MFS fans interested in helicopter flight.
For $42 users are getting 3 unique model variants that will also have unique functionality. We’ve also made changes to our team since the H135 release that have resulted in a huge leap in quality beyond anything I’ve seen from any other payware developer, so with all things considered the cost may be “high” but so will be the value.
I agree with the comment that JustFlight’s Arrow is one of the best GA aircraft in the sim, but the comment that it is was priced somewhere around $30 USD is false, that aircraft has always and is still currently $44.99 USD with the III/IV Turbo variant being an additional $44.99 with a generous 66% discount for Arrow III owners. We are delivering 3 unique models for less than this cost.
Being an owner of JustFlight’s Arrow myself and having insight into our development I can confidently say that our H145 warrants similar pricing. Our modeling and attention to detail is phenomenal, our custom avionics are unmatched and the challenges of developing a helicopter flight model are well beyond that of a fixed wing aircraft.
Regarding the early access pledge I will be the first to tell you don’t do it unless you are comfortable with the idea of having to put your trust in us while you wait for a flyable build. We feel we’ve built up our reputation with the H135 to show we’re one of the most transparent, responsive and approachable development teams that there is, but if you disagree that is fine and we welcome you to wait until a build is available for you to try out for yourself or wait even longer until the official 1.0 release.
We are flight sim users and fans too so we absolutely understand that the community will vote with their wallets, we’re confident that our H145 will be successful because we know we’ll be successful in delivering an incredible product.
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I didn’t hesitate to go for the H145 early access. I see it as an investment in a talented team of entrepreneurs who have already shown what they are capable of, and what they’re willing to deliver to the community for free. I’ve always been a fixed-wing GA fan, but I got hooked on the H135 and can’t wait for her big sister. When I think of what I’ve spent on payware that just didn’t do it for me, $43 for something I know I’ll enjoy is money well spent.
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A very special approach to ask for such amount of money and nothing to deliver at the moment but promises. I have seen so many „developers“ showing off early 3d renders of aircrafts and promising study level quality only to cancel the development soon after and completely disappear.
This is a high-risk investment at this point and definitely a new approach that i have never seen in flightsimming in all these years… lets see how this turns out…
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Considering the fact that we already have the H135, which was ground breaking, I don’t think the asking price is bad at all. Even if some of you consider the H145 to be a high risk investment, I’d wager you probably already have spent enough hours with the 135 that the cost is justified already. I’m thinking of it as a H135/H145 package because the 135 is IMHO payware quality at this point.
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I have not downloaded the H135 at all because it does not offer a very „realistic“ experience when it comes to flight dynamics. Im not a Heli-expert at all but obviously it is lacking a proper simulation. This is NOT (only) the developers fault but more a lack of the SDK supporting helicopters. Keeping that in mind, the developers did a great job for sure. However, i will never loan money to a stranger from the internet. The outcome is pretty obviously rarely a positive one…
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It will cost you nothing to try it out. I found it to be surprisingly good considering the problems the developers were up against. If they had released it as payware I would have still purchased it and been happy with the product.
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It’s never a good thing when a dev calls his own unreleased product phenomenal and unmatched, considering the Bell helicopter released recently is miles away from this.
Our modeling and attention to detail is phenomenal, our custom avionics are unmatched and the challenges of developing a helicopter flight model are well beyond that of a fixed wing aircraft.
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I shared my view of this above and here is an answer from the CEO of one of the most respected AddOn Aircraft-developers in the whole industry, replying to a customer who asked if its possible to have a “early acess” for a product:
We have never offered an early access product, and I don’t think we would. The reason is really straight-forward: This community was absolutely robbed blind by a few developers in/around the 2005-2010 time period through “early access” and “pay-to-beta” programs. It really did a huge amount of damage to the community and it’s faith in the honesty of developers. I much prefer that when we hand you a product, at most it might need some tweaks through micro updates- but it isn’t as if we can hand you a ■■■■ pile and then walk away. We have too much respect for the community to engage in such a fashion- and I think that is an important value to maintain.
I remember these times very well and thats why i am so sceptical to this and i encourage all the simmers, DONT DO THAT! Its for the good of all of us if we dont allow developers to let this happen again. We should have been getting smarter with all these years…
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LOL $43…good luck with that.
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Sorry but with both, the Bell 47 and the H135 in my hangar I go for the Bell every time. It just feels much more realistic to fly. And that’s not about the modern airframe or avionics. It’s about a flight model that’s for fixed wing planes vs a flight model for rotor aircraft. So for the price that you’re asking your flight model needs to be better than the Bells. Much better. And I don’t see that coming. And yeah the H-135 has payware quality but more like $15-$20 quality.
And if you’re providing the same flight model for all three variants it’s essentially the same aircraft with different skins. Just a cheap way to rise the price without much effort. A lot of developers sell more than one model without asking for more money.
So are you developing your own external flight model just like the guys from FlightInside did? This would be a valuable information specially if you want some money upfront.
I think all the hype around the H-135 got to your head. It is one of the best freeware aircraft - that’s for sure. But as payware it plays in a different league. And I don’t see why I should pay more than I’ve paid for the Bell without a proper rotorcraft flight model. 
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Guys, the price is expensive but don’t you think we should be nicer and more encouraging to new upstarts who aim to provide more toys for us to play with.
If you think it is too expensive, or it may be vapourware, you can just post a cautionary message to all.
If I am developing only one of two helicopters in the entire sim, I would also charge a premium for it.
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I encourage them to develop the product and be successful with it. But I think the feedback is showing that the way they are approaching it doesn’t sit well with quite a few people. If I were working on a project, it would certainly give me something to think about in terms of pricing the product, etc. I think this is constructive and useful. But that’s my take.
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The fun thing here is that until now the reaction by its fans to people who have dared point out deficiencies in the H135 has been something like who cares, they did what Microsoft and Asobo claimed was impossible, it is so fun to fly, who cares about realism. And now the creators of the H135 themselves, when they announce an upcoming much improved follow-up H145, list all the excellent and realistic new features in that, thus implicitly admitting that the H135 was just an unrealistic testbench while they were working on their real product. Which is a good approach of course. One perhaps could just wish they would have been more upfront about it from the start.
personally, this is incredibly disappointing. they’re effectively going to fine us for not purchasing their product, when they decide we should.
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i don’t do preorders and i don’t trust companies that do.
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if the finished product is beyond incredible, i would consider it for the original price, but…
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i will absolutely not be effectively fined/charged extra for not purchasing it when they were ready. if they go through with this, i’ll wait for a huge sale or never buy it.
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i do agree with you but it’s simply about how consumer friendly they’re being. this is an anti-consumer move, so the response is unsurprising.
That’s really a matter of perspective… glass half empty, glass half full kind of deal.
It is absolutely not unusual to incentivise pre-orders with a discount. It’s not intended as a punishment to non pre-orders, but conversely a sweetener to encourage people to put their faith in your product before reviews or the final version. If you view it as such then I’m sure there’s nothing that can change your mind, but it certainly won’t be their intention.
All that said, it’s probably too steep a price in my opinion given all the considerations. When it releases if it’s exceptional in every aspect then I might reconsider, but time will tell. Ultimately though it’s completely up to them, they don’t owe me anything. If it’s too expensive for my tastes then I can put my money elsewhere, and I wish them nothing but success!
I would like to hear more regarding the planned flight model. Will it be like the H135 where it is effectively a hack (albeit a very good one) or will it be like flyinside with a dedicated external heli flight model? For the price I’d really hope the latter but I imagine that’s an awful lot of work.
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The problem with pre-orders or early acess is that peoples get abused regularly. You can see it on steam, how many early-acess games never got released but cancelled and people lost money. The same happened also in the flightsim-community.
I understand everyone who thinks that this is not the right way to go. If they would have a WIP Product as an Alpha or Beta that you can get NOW, at the moment you buy it, it would have been different.
But for now, there is only a promise and no warranty that this product will ever see the light of the day, in the worst case. Also it is not possible for the users right now to have any insight if the product will be worth the money.
Maybe the product will absolutely be worth the price, maybe it will be abondoned and never get released… its just too much of a risk and generally, the customers should not accept such ways of pre-financing a developer. Because there are enough greedy “developers” out there that will abuse that very soon and will cause lots of damage, again.
I dont say this is the case here, but there is a possibility. With this move, the developers of this product have a very big responsability and they are risking the faith of there customers and even their whole reputation if anything goes wrong during development, which can always happen on a very regularly changing and evolving platform as MSFS is in this state.
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Agreed and as a rule I don’t pre-order anything… I only ever make an exception for products where availability will be an issue for a long time after launch and where I have faith in the company behind them. Needless to say scarcity is not an issue for software so I can’t remember the last time I pre-ordered any game/program.
I was merely pointing out that the view of being “fined” for waiting is only a question of perspective and undoubtedly not their intention.
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