Is there another graph that has benchmarking results for 1440p and/or 4K with Ultra graphics preset? I understand why LTT is using 1080p/Very High here (so the test isn’t bottlenecked by the GPU and bigger differences between CPUs can be seen), but nobody who is spending mucho cash on a top-of-the-line CPU is playing at 1080p. I’d rather see more realistic benchmarking scenarios using resolutions and graphics presets that players would actually use. If that shows that all the CPUs perform generally the same and performance is GPU-bound (like in @ncbartschi’s post above), then that’s actually very useful information when making a purchasing decision.
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If using a high LOD, I would imagine 4K would be similar if not the same as the graph you quoted. If you crank down the LOD to 100 or so and test at 4K, then it would largely be GPU limited and would look like the Cyberpunk graph I posted - all the results would cluster around the same values.
I do agree though, it would be interesting to see. I don’t think any exist off the top of my head.
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Here are benchmarks by PCWatch with an RTX 3090 Ti. The first three graphs were made at Ultra settings, last one at Medium. The 5800X3D has the edge in all cases.
All CPUs were tested with DDR4-3200 memory, so the 12900K should do better with a good DDR5 kit, but of course it will be more expensive.
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I initially assumed the same, but gaming benchmarks between DDR4 and DDR5 show little if any difference - some even show DDR4 as performing slightly better, likely due to its lower latency. As DDR5 matures and latency is improved, I fully expect it to start performing better than DDR4.
The best 12900k DDR4 vs DDR5 bechmark I saved:
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The DDR5 kit in that test is 4800MHz CL40, which is pretty much rock-bottom for DDR5 and way worse than a good DDR4 kit. With decent DDR5, the 5800X3D could eventually be dethroned.
Keep in mind the article was written in November 2021. Since then DDR5 has made big progress in both performance and value, and will continue to do so throughout 2023.
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Yep, absolutely. I remember the same trend when they went from DDR3 to DDR4.
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I want to hear more about the rumors of adding even more level 3 cache to the older CPU lines for AMD
This would be a brilliant stepping stone for those tight on upgrading motherboard and RAM, even Intel users could side step and keep DDR4 with hugely expanded L3 Cache
I think the benchmark we really need to see is one done at 1920x1080, but with terrain LOD at 400, and all AI traffic sliders at zero (there’s just too much variation there between runs for accuracy). Unfortunately no mainstream reviewers are going to give us that kind of test, so it will be up to our early adopters here to give us the goods.
The sim desperately needs a couple of locked settings benchmark flights, one designed for pure cpu stress and another purely for gpu, both with either zero or hardcoded AI traffic and weather.
That would take all of the guesswork out of these comparisons and would be of immense use during betas.
As for Zen 4 I think it’s going to be close against the core i9-13900k. Raptor lake is getting a sizeable cache bump over alder lake, and a good frequency boost as well. I expect raptor lake to briefly hold the crown, but the next zen 3d vcache chips will take it back early next year. I think those are the ones to wait for. It’ll be a couple of years before Intel beats that I suspect.
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Seeing as everyone is throwing up whizzy bar charts, here is one more 
Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-7950x3d-7900x3d-and-7800x3d-tipped-for-ces-2023-launch
What’s for sure is that we won’t be seeing more than 96MB L3 cache for each Zen 3 CCD, because it would require a new packaging process which is not going to happen for older CPUs. That would need either more than 64MB on the V-Cache chip (which needs a new process node and SRAM scaling is not very good after 7nm), or more chips stacked on top (which I’m not sure whether it’s possible today and without a redesign of the IHS).
Officially, AMD have stated that they will keep supporting the AM4 socket for years to come, but it’s a rather vague statement. At most we should expect software updates (there are still some bugs in the latest AGESA version) or more entry-level Zen 3 SKUs (as it will probably be a while until we see Zen 4 for the mainstream market).
A reputable leaker claims that a 5900X3D exists at the packaging factory and it could enter mass production if AMD want to, however with DDR5 steadily becoming more affordable, it would hurt Zen 4 and AM5 board sales so it’s looking rather unlikely at the moment (same reason we won’t be seeing Zen 4 on AM4 even though it exists in the lab).
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One thing I can surmise from that gpu limited 4k chart above is there will be little sense in buying a Zen4 without a top graphics card to match. Already I am worried that a 5800x3D will do nothing for my 3060 except let me crank up the LODs and traffic (although I’m really quite happy where they are). IMO the FPS gain would be minimal so unless prices come down massively I don’t think I’ll bother.
According to 5800X3D owners, the biggest improvement comes in the form of minimum frame rates, more consistent frame times, and fewer stutters. So even if generally GPU-limited, the 5800X3D could help make the experience smoother, especially in edge cases (for example, hand-crafted airports near a photogrammetry city with lots of traffic).
As for the price, it has dropped to $385 on Amazon.com. Hopefully we will see similar discounts in Europe in the near future.
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Is this Zen4 still AM4+ socket with DDR4 RAM?
Or has my stone-age computer from 2020 already become absolete with the mainboard merely a frisbee for the dog, being in need of upgrading the mainboard too?
(And the RAM, oh my god and I am using the most expensive DDR4 on the market… I can´t even imagine going seperate ways some day with the most awesome RAM in the whole world!!)
Zen 4 is on AM5 with DDR5 memory, so you will need a new motherboard and RAM indeed.
However, if you bought your system in 2020, you likely have a Zen 2 CPU, which means that an upgrade to the 5800X3D would provide a massive performance boost. It’s not obsolete yet.
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I would agree. All the leaks I’ve seen seem to show the 7950x competing quite closely with the 13900k, with perhaps the 13900k with a slight advantage. It’s pretty clear AMD’s secret weapon against Raptor Lake is the Zen 4 V-cache option. Release the origimal Ryzen 7000 lineup in Q4 2022, then the V-cache lineup in Q1 2023. Just adding the L3 cache would likely provide that 10-20% gaming boost - an uplift you normally see between generations.
I also fully expect the 7950X3D to be within the lineup, as this is typically the best binned among them all and has the most to gain on single-threaded performance. The 5800X3D was more of testing the concept, as it’s one core complex made it an easier test bed for 3D L3 cache.
The early performance estimates I saw hint that in terms of Single Threaded performance the entry level 7600X will be clearly above 12900K and very close to the rest of the 7000 range.
If this is confirmed by hard data from actual reviews, I will be picking up a high end AM5 motherboard, paired with the 7600X, then upgrade to the 79x0X3D (16 cores | 32 threads | 3D Cache) once it is out.
Currently AMD 7000 release scheduled for late september, 3D Vcache versions expected sometime in Q1/2023
In Red: ST, in Blue: MT
(NB: of course, as always, early leaks and derived estimates are to be taken with a grain of salt. Credit: Moore’s Law is Dead YT Channel).
You might as well wait until the 7950X3D is out instead. It should release in Q1 2023, and by then both AM5 motherboards and DDR5 memory will be cheaper. Do as you say only if you really need a new system within the next month, otherwise you’ll be wasting a lot of money that could go towards a better GPU or a future CPU upgrade (Zen 5, coming in 2024, will be a big architectural leap).
MLiD should not be trusted at all, he’s just making things up with some educated guesses, and deleting his videos when proved wrong. The list of fake leaks keeps going on and on (Zen 3 with SMT4, Ampere with 4x ray-tracing performance, DLSS 3.0, NVCache, Zen 4 with +25% IPC, Intel shutting down their GPU division). Recently he had both Intel and TSMC debunk his claims, and he thought it’d be best to just start arguing with them.
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Yeah, I knew about his claims on Intel and how that went.
As I said, early leaks and derived estimates are to be taken with a grain of salt. I only quoted him because the chart comes from him.
If hard data from reviewers confirm what’s in the chart, AMD will be having a pretty nice ride for the next year or two. Seems like Wall Street is buying into that, looking at the stock prices 
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I agree. There’s a few leaked benchmarks out now as well, including the official reveal slides from AMD.
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Should I wait for the 7950X3D or just go with 7950X.
The 7950X is due to release later this month I think, while the 7950X3D releases next year.
Hmm, decisions decisions!!