I was experimenting with the DA40NG and auto pilot last night. When I went into ROL mode I would start banking slightly to the left.
I tried experimenting by changing bank angle and direction but it always retuned to the bank when I re-engaged. A while later in the flight, after flying in navigation mode, it finally leveled out when I went back to ROL.
I’ve heard that ROL mode in the sim doesn’t hold a bank like it really would and only flies level. But things change. Was this a bug or is there a way to get the bank to change?
Roll mode is a manual mode that allows the pilot to roll the aircraft using manual controls to a new heading with the AP engaged.
Normally if you turn the yoke with Heading or Nav on, the AP will disconnect.
I tried that also but it felt like the AP was fighting any input. I tried turning it off, rolling the other direction (right), and then enable again. The airplane rolled all the way back to the same turn on the left. I also tried that to get level flight.
On a video I was watching the guy said it will hold your roll if it’s under a certain angle. I’ve mostly flown on the C172 Classic and that only leveled the airplane.
I also have a realism mod installed for the airplane. So I’m not sure if it has anything to do with that.
It was weird, I started looking around to see if there was a roll dial or setting somewhere.
I’m used turning it on in the classic Cessna 172 to free up my hands and attention. As long as you haven’t turned it on while on the ground it will just level and altitude hold. If you had turned it on while on the ground it will go to 100% nose down dive.
In the DA40NG it started off with that left roll from the beginning.
Whatever gave you the impression that this is how it works. The G1000 ROL mode is meant to hold the current bank angle on initial AP engagement per the following criteria.
LT the lower limit (for example 6 degrees) roll wings level
Between lower and upper limits (for example between 6 & 22 degrees) hold bank angle
GT the upper limit, hold bank angle at upper limit
Once the bank angle is established and being held then the way to alter it is using the CWS mode button which temporarily disengages the servo so you can hand fly a new bank. When cws is released the AP captures the new bank angle based on the same criteria as the initial capture.
Caveat. I haven’t tested if the in sim version works exactly this way, but it should if it wants to replicate the real one.
No its definitely not! You can change the roll / pitch which is maintained using Control Wheel Steering (CWS) or Touch Control Steering (TCS) mode. Its a small button on the back of the C172 yoke somewhere. Not sure if it works in MSFS.
Same with roll mode, there is no difference between ROLL and any other lateral AP mode in that sense. That you are able to steer through the autopilot in MSFS without CWS / TCS is a bug. In real life you can’t steer through the AP without disengaging it (during normal operation), no matter the active mode.
It is what happens when your brain is out of focus!
Oddly enough, I have never used roll mode, but over the years I have read a lot of posts, etc. about using it.
In trying to explain it, I obviously added two and two and came up with five!
Thanks so much for setting me straight, it’s very much appreciated!!
Very helpful everyone. I’ve seen posts and videos say holding bank angle does not work. But it could also be airplane dependent?
I’ll assume what I experienced was a bug since I could not hold any bank or level the wings unless in HDG or NAV. At the time it was a useful bug as I did want to hold my position.
I just use ROL since it’s the default state as an auto trim to free my hand up.
I’ll see if that can be bound. Trying to click that little button would be near impossible. But if the sim doesn’t hold the bank angle I think it would just function like normal AP disconnect.
Would CWS leave the servos connected to the elevators?
CWS or TCS (different name for the same thing) disconnect the servos and let you fly manually as long as you keep the TCS button pressed. Upon releasing TCS the flight director synchs with your current bank when in ROLL, pitch when in PITCH mode, other wise vertical speed or IAS. When in any other (advanced) mode the AP will return to whatever it was following.
Disengaging and reengaging the autopilot does not work. If you disengage the AP while in ROLL mode with a left bank, steer to the right and then reengage the AP, the AP will steer back to the left. There is no way to select the roll maintained by the AP other than CWS / TCS. I’m not sure if CWS / TCS is modelled at all in MSFS.
Well, there is actually another way but its not very practical. The AP automatically reverts to ROLL mode when engaging the AP with no lateral mode active or when deselecting the the active mode (for example, pressing the HDG button while already in HDG mode).
You could for example disengage AP and select FD to OFF, roll to the required bank angle, engage the AP. It should now be in ROLL mode with current AOB. To select a new AOB you need to repeat those steps, select AP and FD OFF, steer to the required AOB, select AP to ON.
Similarly you could disengage AP, roll to the required AOB, select the active lateral mode one more time, and it should also revert to ROLL mode with the current bank angle. That is how it should work at least, not sure how accurate MSFS is.
Just tried some things out in the 172 Classic version.
I bound both AP Master and AP Disengage to separate buttons.
I experienced so many weird things I’ll just say it’s super buggy.
Using the disengage binding caused the master AP switch to not function at all. From clicking the button to using AP binding. If I toggled the disengage again, I regained control over the AP master. So I had to click the disengage again. Then arm the master switch again. Also hold of the disengage would not hold, like a camera does.
Then the AP wasn’t stopping at the preset altitude and often not showing the VS setting.
Using the key bindings for VS worked but the AP did not display the setting at all.
My take is the AP in the Cessna 172 Classis is an absolute mess. It’s a shame as it’s part of the Premium package.
Yes, I’ve seen that too. I take it that’s not accurate.
I watch many of Kip’s videos. He makes all of the AP, Garmin programming, procedures, vertical speed navigation, etc. all seem so easy. I’m usually very good at tinkering with intricate stuff too.
For what works in the sim it’s impressive. But then little things put up such roadblocks.
Guys, this thread has (sortof) cleared up some confusion I’ve had with the G1000 ROL mode since the game first launched!
So firstly: Thanks!
In the early days I thought I’d understood the G1000 well, but kept randomly having the autopilot try and bank me at 90deg into the ground. It was happening so often, I actually stopped playing the game for over year because I figured the AP was unplayably buggy and I should just wait for it to be fixed.
A week ago I got back into it, and this time with the WT G1000 NXi. It’s been great, and I assumed this ‘bug’ had been fixed, until this evening when I tried a ‘Circle and Land’ approach into LYVR Rwy 19L with the DA62. I wanted to see how much of the approach I could do using the instuments, so I arrived at ‘VRA’ via GPS, and then navigated the prescribed downwind manouvre using HDG mode while monitoring the VOR ‘VAC’. My problem came when I attempted the 180deg turn back to Runway 19L. I figured what I’d do is:
Set the CRS to 187deg from ‘VAC’ in preperation
Disable HDG (putting the G1000 into ROL mode)
Manually bank the plane around a 180deg arc towards the runway by eye, while the AP holds the ALT
When about right, engage NAV mode to have the VOR hold me on course to the runway
What happened was exactly what’s described here: The AP fought against me banking the plane, but I won and got to where I wanted to be… however, when I hit the NAV button the plane banked HARD to the left and was unusable from that point. I disabled the AP and finished the approach and landing by hand.
So I now know the most imoportant lesson is DO NOT EVER touch the stick while AP is engaged, this will overtrim/break the plane/sim.
Question though - is there any other way to fly an arc using full or partial AP assistance? Or are these things strictly manual/visual manouvres? Only other thought I had was using (/abusing) the G1000 holding pattern function.
I’m not sure why that would be the case. I’ve invoked pitch, bank and yaw inputs both deliberately and accidentally to the G1000 equipped Skyhawk - AP remained on and remained in last attitude. About the only time uncommanded inputs forced AP off is when the rudder axis on the TCA joystick would start acting up because of a well-documented manufacturing defect where the wire bundling friction locks against the rudder potentiometer.
Sorry, to clarify, I too often give small amounts of manual input with no problems - usually by kicking the rudder pedals when stretching. I’ve also given it too much input in ‘normal’ modes while messing about (HDG/NAV, ALT/FLC/etc) and it disengages in the way you’d expect but can be re-engaged again.
The problem I find is if you go too far and ‘fight’ the AP while in ROL mode for a long time - in my case because I mistakenly thought that’s what the mode was for - to hold a manual bank angle. There seems to come a point where it ‘breaks’ - it seems to me like the opposing value that the AP is applying to the aileron control to ‘fight’ my manual input gets locked fully in the opposite direction and can’t recover. Given this is software, not a real plane, maybe something overflows?
If there isn’t a TCS function available in MSFS the answer is no. Its either flown by the AP or by you. No mix. We do usually fly circling approaches on AP in real life, at least the initial part. In real life we select ALT mode at MDA +30 ft, when in ALT mode we select missed approach altitude, if runway in sight at or before missed approach point, turn 45 degrees away (HDG mode), time for 30 seconds when wings are level, turn downwind, start timing abeam the threshold for height x 3 (e.g. 1000 ft above ground = 30 seconds) then turn base and final on heading mode and start descent as required. I would disconnect the AP and turn the FD off somewhere at this point and fly the rest manually, its easier.
