The clearance looks really good. Good job.
Thanks for clearing up the push communications. As of now in FS2020 we’re limited to requesting the push to start so we can do everything from “secure below, FOD check complete, release parking brake, ready to push” all the way to the “Pushback complete, set parking brake”.
I’ll have to check and mess around today to see if it’s possible to add extra items in the communication, maybe? but can’t promise it but we can at least get what is possible looking actually correct.
Does ZenDesk want examples of incorrect phraseology? It may just be a speech synthesis thing, but ATC never says “Climb and maintain ten thousand feet”. It’s “one-zero-thousand”. You might hear a controller reinforce the clearance by saying “ten thousand” but otherwise numbers (except for air carrier flight numbers in the US) are always spoken in individual form. And “feet” is not used. EX: “Descend and maintain three thousand.” “Cross OCN at and maintain one two thousand.” “Climb and maintain flight level two three zero.” - Lose the “feet” and lose the group form (twelve thousand, etc.).
Howdy all
I was annoyed by the ATC saying stuff like FIFE and TREE, DECIMAL etc… I did a bit of digging and have found this out and created a reddit about it.
Might not be exactly what you’re after but its a start!
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Yes that has bugged me too! Also it looks like for some reason these locPak’s can’t be setup to run out of the community folder, bummer! But nothing wrong with keeping a changed copy and a backup of the original just in case and making the changes, granted not the best way but looking like the only way to do these files.
Still working on doing the changes for the rest of the ATC coms when I get time after work, just the clearance delivery and pushback stuff has already made a big difference in how the game “feels”.
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There has been a lot of discussion about MSFS and unusual phraseology. For instance, their use of group form in numbers (ten thousand instead of one-zero-thousand and so on). Many folks have complained about things like “fife” for five and “tree” for three. And as some have pointed out, these are actually the correct ICAO pronunciations of these numbers.
Much of the confusion stems from what we hear on the radio from ATC and pilots. Many of us old timers were taught when the FAA had their own pronunciation guide but in the past several years the FAA has been adopting more and more ICOA (international) standards. Still, while most controllers will say “niner” instead of “nine”, many have been slow to adopt the use of “fife” and “tree”.
Another issue is that seemingly every few years someone sitting at a desk in DC will suddenly decide that certain phraseology MUST be changed for the safety of the flying public. For instance, we can no longer inquire about “souls on board” (it’s persons on board!). The phonetics for the letter “Q” were hotly debated going from kwaBECK to KEEbeck and now kehBECK. You may very well hear all three on the radio. anyway, here’s the latest list of ICAO phonetics from the controller’s bible (7110.65Y), the .65 (and that’s pronounced “point sixty five” not decimal, not fife!):
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Great post! Being a previous airline pilot I fully agree. I would also suggest adding European VFR comm procedures available. It’s quite different from how it works in the US. This could be a more long term project as it will require a bit of work, but it would be absolutely awesome to see that in the future.
I will be more than happy to assist the FS2020 team if neccessary.
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Ideally, there should be multiple phraseologies used based on the geographical location of the ATC. If it’s in the United States, then use FAA. If it’s in Canada, use ICAO, and so on around the world.
Yes, a very large portion of the world uses ICAO, but there are still regional variations based on the governing authorities. (Portions of Eastern Europe come to mind) It’s very much a reality of international flying. The phraseology is similar but not 100% the same, and it’s defined by regulations.
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ATC in this game is copy+paste from FSX with some ground services integrated. That’s about it. Was hoping for more realism, but oh well.
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Too much of this game was Copy/Paste from FSX where it really matters.
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Blockquote The ATC is not even able to provide correct vectors for an ILS, but can ask you to descend into a mountain.
Controllers give crazy directions for altitude adjustments. They also often ignore your flight plan, and tell you to go to a different altitude than you are supposed to be at. Plus they can’t make up their mind, they sometimes keep telling you to go up and down. I also hate ground telling me to brake for traffic that isn’t there.
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Eurocontrol provides a phraseology guide online with audio files:
https://contentzone.eurocontrol.int/phraseology/
The menu covers pretty much every situation (normal, abnormal and even CPDLC).
It would be nice if it was incorprorated.
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I think that may be another difference between FAA and ICAO (or maybe just UK), as UK CAP413 definitely indicates that ‘feet’ should be used.
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Highly recommend ASOBO / Microsoft take a look at the free CAP413 on the UK CAA website. It’s a very clear guide as to how pilots and ATC should interact.
publicapps[dot]caa[dot]co[dot]uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6[dot]pdf
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I’m not saying it’s easy. People IRL are trying to create an automatic ATC system for decades, and the best they could do was a bunch of (useful) tools for ATC.
Maybe FS developers should lower their expectations : a nice and efficient information service would be IMO as realistic and useful as this control system which never gives any appropiate instruction.
And you’ll log to Vatsim if you look for something better.
I also get a Sqawk 1200 when canceling VFR flight following here in Europe. It actually should be Sqawk 7000. For whatever reason the transponder already defaults to 7000.
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You can use the “Hyperlink” mark-up to add a link:
publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413v21_6.pdf
Just click the chain link icon and paste in your URL.
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We use “feet” when issuing a certain amount of feet to change your altitude. “Descend 500 feet” but do not use feet for the actual flight level. “Descend and maintain two thousand”.
There is nothing to be annoyed about. These pronounciations are the correct ones when talking on a radio.
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My disappointment on the ATC is actually beyond all these! All the mentioned stuff in the comments can be fixed. My disappointment is that Microsoft has almost done no update on their ATC system. Like what you guys experience as an ATC is very similar to the FSX ATC. While it has been 15 years passed and the voice recognition and text to speech technologies have advance significantly, one would expect they make a real AI driven ATC system that you can actually talk to the controller via your microphone. That was the dream in FSX and I remember there were 3rd party speech recognition applications that could select the correct option on the ATC for you. Like come on guys you had 15 years to come up with a more advanced ATC system. While using VATSIM is cool, having an AI driven ATC has always been a dream for us flight simmers.
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