I tried to start from EISG (Sligo Ireland) with a rwy aof 3932ft (round 1200m) and failed with full power and 15° flaps. According to manufacturer the ATR need 1050m. How could this happen?
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Hi there,
I put this in Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, as that is the support area for flying.
Don’t forget to switch from ground idle to flight idle. I learned that the hard way myself…
I did but i found out that for this case overdrive will be helpful. Probably that was the solution.
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- manufacturers numbers are best possible results, with a PIC who is intimately familiar with the type. Chances are you are not that good
- numbers in the POH are for a standard day. 15deg celsius and 29.92” SL pressure. Try the same takeoff at 25 degrees and 32.00” and it is not even going to be close.
- I don’t have the ATR but I found MTOW 1500m takeoff and 1100 landing.
I also thought the consensus was the ATR is a bit under-powered in the sim. I’m not sure if that’s still the prevailing impression, but it was discussed quite a bit in the main thread.
When i activate overdrive its ok.
You do need overdrive on short runways, partocularly when you’re near MTOW. I also experienced this the hardway. The ATR doesn’t behave as a STOL, just as as SL because take offs aren’t that short actually. On really short runways (Chagual airport for example) I just go overdrive and flaps 30, which is far from standard procedures.
Is overdrive referring to pushing throttles beyond notch, or condition levers full forward, or both? I seem to have trouble getting off the ground on 5-6,000 feet runways when loaded.
My procedure is anything but standard, but I do run power to Ramp instead of Notch, sometimes overdrive on the condition lever, and sometimes use the boost button, which allows a higher ITT temp (the button was added for operations on high altitude airports -Avianca if I recall correctly because their base is in Bogota, which is like 8000’).
Generally speaking, systems and procedures are designed to extend engine life, that’s why you don’t use ramp, never use full throttle (mechanical stop) or overdrive and boost (perhaps boost can be more frequently used if you’re operating in high altitude airports).
Nevertheless, since failures aren’t modeled and it actually has a lot of things lacking (none critical, but situates the model a couple steps aside of studio level), I also do a couple of non standard procedures. I don’t see the point of following each and every real life procedure if the engines aren’t delivering close to real life power, for example.
So, back to the scenario, in a 5-6000’ runway, you should be good just using ramp instead of notch. On very very short strips where the airplane isn’t supposed to take off (for example, SPGL) i simply go flaps 30 (if needed, generally not, depends on wind), overdrive, ramp and boost, when fully loaded.
You won’t damage the plane and you can stick to real life procedures when power is correctly modeled. On the rest of procedures I do follow close to real life steps, occasionally changing this and that.
EDIT: I just tried a departure with 50% fuel and 100% payload and was able to take off with a 4800’ runway just using ramp instead of notch. Torque never exceeded 100%, ITT temps were fine (green zone), airport at 1000’ AMSL. So… unless you’re fully loaded you shouldn’t be having issues.
Remember that flaps generally do not provide equal amounts of lift as they do drag.
If real world procedures do not call for flaps 30 there usually is a reason for that.
In other words, you may give away more speed than you gain in lift using a draggy configuration
In certain conditions, and not for commercial operations, you may accelerate clean and then set flaps as you approach the lift of speed.
I liked doing that in the Archer and Saratoga…because they both levitated off the runway doing that and a friend mentioned it looked a bit like a B52 taking off:joy:
Yes completely agree, actually takes a little bit of practice, but the “official procedure” (written by the same guys that wrote Ryanair landing procedures) would be to accelerate, lift off as soon as lift is reached, retract landing gear asap, gain speed until flaps 15 lift speed has been reached, retract to 15, and then proceed as normal. This all happens very quickly and you can easily stall the ATR so more things to keep an eye on.
I generally do this similar (of course not equal) to a go-around after touching the runway (where you would actually be with flaps 30, landing gear down, and probably slowed down to below take off speeds)
PS: just in case, for everyone not familiar with the Ryanair joke, it’s an airline known for their hard landings, there are actually tons of memes about it.
I notice the ATR is also severely underpowered. I’ve tried to take off the ATR from El Nido, Lio Airport (IATA: ENI, no ICAO) which has a 3,600 foot long runway and have failed to because I can’t get to takeoff speeds quick enough. This doesn’t make sense as the ATR72 and 42 both do daily flights in and out of here and have no issues with the takeoff roll, while the MSFS ATR can’t even reach v1 by the time it hits the fence. Really do hope this gets addressed soon because it’s impossibly to fly out of this airport due to its underpowered thrust.