ATR EFB Weight Entries

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1

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Have you disabled/removed all your mods and addons?

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Brief description of the issue:

Guys, it’s 2023 and the ATR is a first-party, “Expert Level” add-on. I shouldn’t have to be writing this post, especially not post-release. The EFB needs to take weight entries. Not read them. When you force an add-on to use the default load manager to do weight and balance you’re really stretching the idea of the addon being at all realistic. At best it makes the user drag a level in to match their anticipated ZFW, but creating some random CG location based on a mash of weights applied evenly throughout the airframe. At worst it forces the user to calculate the appropriate weights for each zone, and then load them by hand. Come on, let’s get this right. Even the CRJ by the same developer has this feature.

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Detailed steps to reproduce the issue encountered:

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2

Have you tried using the FMC to add weight? That’s what I use

1 Like
3

I tried that, it doesn’t seem to actually do anything other than tell the FMC and EFB what weights you think you have. You can try it yourself, zero out the fuel in the FMC and see if it actually happens in the payload manager.

1 Like
7

Same problem.
Can’t change the payload or other values (without the ZFW in the FMS).
No interaction in the payload page on the EFB

1 Like
8

why should the EFB “take” weight entry’s rather than just read them, given IRL you can throw the EFB out the window and you can STILL set the aircraft up without it.

while the standard default MSFS weight and balance menu actually loads up the ATR’s quite evenly with minimal CoG shift keeping things well within the MAC% limits.

and well the level of maths you need to populate the FMC entries which in turn will populate the missing EFB entry’s is children’s level maths.

you can argue the opposite actually, having the EFB being the single point of doing everything is less realistic.

9

My concern is that yesterday I tested to change the cargo weight in the MSFS menu => it did’nt change the centre of gravity on the EFB or even any parameters.
Maybe it’s a mistake of me: I made the change after launching the flight and not on the game menu.

10

for me any changes via the default MSFS weight and balance UI are reflected on the graph on the EFB payload page, and assuming you are using the two main sliders (fuel & payload) then there is little in the way of trend change of the CoG\MAC%.

in other words it matter not if I do it in the main menu before the flight, or multiple times on the ground, the plot on EFB payload graph changes, as dose crew weight & payload weight, while ZFW & fuel weight are only populated\updated when YOU populate the appropriate values in the FMC manually after taking the fuel weight directly from the MSFS W&B menu or the FOB on the centre MFD, and have added together yourself empty weight + crew weight + payload to populate the ZFW in the FMC, thus GW will be filled etc.

i.e. if you have populated the FMC values once then any changes via the weight and balance menu wont change the currant ZFW\Fuel weight\GW on the EFB until you manually update update the FMC values.

2 Likes
11

there is an EFB it is to use it, so yes it bugs so we raised the problem, I don’t understand your argument

12

Where is it written that the EFB needs to take WB. Use the FMC the way they developed it and stop wasting time on issues that aren’t broken. Complaints like this detract from legitimate issues of which the ATR has many

13

You don’t seem to understand. The FMC doesn’t actually do anything with the values either, it just shows them back to you like a mirror. The EFB just shows what the FMC says, like a mirror. The only way to enter weights is the default MSFS window, which is archaic and inaccurate. It just makes the weights even across all areas, creating a CG that is unrealistic. I just want it to be accurate, it doesn’t have to be complicated. Dozens of other aircraft do it correctly. It’s not hard.

2 Likes
15

All these complaints makes me wonder if the ipad in the real plane can change the values in the FMC like we want it to in a video game…

16

How does the FMC calculate Payload of passengers, cargo, Staff in to the gross weight. Its looks like it only factors in Fuel ZFW and FOB. or am I looking in the wrong spot?

17

New to flight sim?

Yes, in the real world the EFB and FMC aren’t connected. I’m not looking for them to be here either. I’m saying they are connected, which is fine, but they don’t actually do anything useful.

If you entered the desired payload on the EFB and that changed the ACTUAL IN SIM WEIGHTS of the aircraft, that’d be fine. Just enter the weights into the FMC and you’re off.

If you entered the desired payload on the FMC and that changed the ACTUAL IN SIM WEIGHTS of the aircraft, that’d be fine. Just enter the weights onto the EFB and do a performance calculation.

The problem is the ATR does neither. The use of the in-sim payload manager is the problem. It’s inaccurate. In reality, you’d load the aircraft with enough people and cargo to make a payload of, for the sake of example, 10,000 lbs or ~4500 kg. that would consist of a number of people in zone 1, a number of people in zone 2, etc. Using this method the aircraft can be accurately balanced. In this rendition of the ATR, you either do all of that math yourself and hand enter those values into the payload manager (no thanks) or you drag the slider until the payload manager says 10,000/4500.

I’ll make it very clear, since you don’t seem to understand. When you drag that slider, it puts equal weights in all the zones until the total is correct. 1,800 lbs in zone 1, 1,800 lbs in zone 2, 1,800 lbs in zone 3, and so on. This is not how a real aircraft is loaded. The zones are different sizes, have differing numbers of seats, and that all impacts how the aircraft is balanced, which is one of the single most important things to consider when flying a commercial aircraft with dozens, if not hundreds of lives in the literal balance. Loading the zones evenly introduces all kinds of problems related to weight and balance. That’s what’s unacceptable. That’s what’s frustrating. That’s why this addon isn’t what it purports to be, “Expert Level.”

It isn’t difficult to make a payload manipulation function on the EFB. Every addon worth it’s weight in tin has one. It’s effectively if/then statements. If 5 passengers in zone 1, then xxx lbs in zone 1 in payload manager. This shouldn’t be something I have to request, as the developer involved is a long-time professional of the industry. He should know better. It’s great that the airplane has a detailed virtual cabin, but that’s meaningless if the aircraft noses up aggressively on takeoff and lawn darts into the runway because it was balanced by simple division.

That’s why I’m frustrated. I’m asking for something that has no excuse not being in the addon already.

5 Likes
18

No, as a matter of fact. I just don’t care enough to nitpick about a $12 virtual plane. But I was being sarcastic in my original statement

The attitude wasn’t necessary. But i’ll make it clear since you don’t seem to understand: I dont take armchair developers seriously at all. I play the game to have fun and for me, the ability to manipulate my weights and stuff through the efb is a luxury, not a necessity as some people in the community claim it to be. Imagine how pilots flew airplanes when they didn’t have an ipad to do the hard work of flight planning for them.

I may not be as serious a simmer as you, but that’s no reason to talk down to others.

This is further elitist attitude that disgraces the community. What you want in a plane, while valid, may not be presented to you in the way you want. That does not mean we can absolutely dump on the developers.

You paid $12 for a virtual airplane. Regardless of what “series” it’s part of, what did you really expect? CS products costs just the same at msrp and have a fraction fo the working systems. Lower your expectations my dude you’ll enjoy the game a little more

Peace love and good luck on your efb quest

Final edit: Looks like the feedback has been logged. We can stop worrying about whether or not they’re gonna fix it - They’ve heard you guy you did it!

1 Like
19

loading all the zones evenly outside of the crew is NOT a problem at all, as relatively speaking there is very little total MAC% shift, and the standard in-sim payload manager provides for significantly more options for deliberate messing around than many of the stupid EFB\FMC methods that just prevent doing such things, or prevent you from rectifying inaccuracy’s and errors they have in the way they load, and the CoG shift they have that are obfuscated.

if you refer to the ATR 42 and 72 WBM’s then, a rearward MAC of 37% (index 21) at any weight to MTOW and a forward MAC of 21% (index -7) at MTOW is the normal take-off and landing limits, while a MAC of 25% is the normal empty CoG position which is index 0 on the 72-600, while for the 42-600 the aft MAC of 34% (index 20) at any weight to MTOW and forward MAC of 21% (index -10) at MTOW is the normal take-off and landing limits, while a MAC of 25% is the normal empty CoG position which is index 0 on the 42-600.

while the trim limits of the horizontal stabiliser tabs are MAC 14% to 37% for the 72-600 in take-off and landing, and for the 42-600 MAC 15% to 34% in take-off and landing.

and well just moving the standard in-sim payload manager sliders for fuel and payload dose not take it outside or terribly close to any of the limits unless you exceed the maximum IRL total payload etc etc.

you talk of realism, yet the thing you moan about manages to stay within realistic MAC % for take-off and landing going by ATR’s own data, while also providing the means to screw around with values individually with ease to create upset or atypical situation.

I for one consider it a bonus and positive thing that the in-sim payload manager works and its not all obfuscated

20

You chastise me for attitude in response to your original sarcasm? Neat.

I don’t have to imagine.

I’m not talking down to you because I think I’m “a more serious simmer.” It was because my point was simple and you talked down to me. Sarcastically even.

I’m dumping on the product because it was misleadingly touted as something it is not. Experts don’t drag sliders, experts put 75 passengers on the plane, with 7 in zone one, 11 in zone two, etc. Call me an angry person or whatever you want, but if we accept sloppy development on a routine basis in the name of “lowering expectations” in order to more enjoy the experience, the slop will become the standard. I’m demanding better because we all deserve better, regardless of the price tag. It’s a $20 add-on because Hans is being paid by Microsoft regardless, supplemented by money from the marketplace. Your money. My money. If it were brought to market by him and a different publisher, it’d be significantly more expensive.

Thanks buddy! I’m so glad my complaint got a basic feature added into an aircraft that allegedly took two years plus to develop!

Did I get your sarcasm right?

3 Likes
21

Yeah, we shouldn’t be needing to use the default MSFS load manager. It’s really quite bad.
Need the ability to enter it via EFB, or the FMC. Either is fine.

2 Likes
22

I agree! Thats the only thing I am really missing, PMDG and FENIX, FBW everyone has that option to use the EFB/FMC to make it i easier to load payload etc, at least the FMC should be that it updates the weight and balance when you enter a ZFW and fuel that it also updates the MSFS default payload manager.

1 Like
23

When entered via the FMC it calculates your V1 etc for you and you can see them in the FMC and the tablet according to the values you enter. Also as I have just recently been made of is that a long press in the FMC will automatically input the data for you. Saves a bit of time…

To me it makes sense doing it this way because when you set up for approach at the end of your flight your fuel will of course be of a different value than when you take off, that is taken into account if you set it up in the FMC. This will allow for wind and all the other variables of flight. I’ve not tested it in any depth as of yet but on the flights I’ve had with it, it seems to work fine to me.

24

The EFB on a sim aircraft should be to configure the aircraft more easily and accurately than through sim menus. I completely agree that the EFB needs to be able to take weights. Not just is the weight menu of msfs inaccurate in terms of balance, it’s also immensely annoying.