Why is it impossible to make a soft landing below 300fpm on the new B747? even if you flare at 50 feet, the plane lands very hard, (if you flare at 30 you get - 500v/s hard landing)
Iâve never flown the 74 (MD-11 sim is the largest I have time in), but I used to begin my flare in the 73 at 50ft. In the A320 now the book recommends 30.
Are you perhaps flaring too low? And, if you flared this low previously, perhaps the FM has changed for the better?
Just a suggestion. 
Hello,
Welcome to the forums!
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate is the subcategory for help. I have moved your topic there.
I donât think they have modeled the ground effect for this plane correctly yet. It was a bit worse, and they did fix it to some degree. The proof, however, is in the fact that the autoland is also rather hard at 400FPM or so. It should be around 150.
So, like with so many MSFS planes, you have to work around their issues. With the 747 I have better results landing at VREF+10 instead of VREF +5. Additionally, I will ease in to the flare from 50â, rather than waiting for 30.
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Have you tried the autoland feature in AAU2? It does the flare and touchdown for you. IRL pilots with many hours in type still make crummy landings. Landing is a difficult skill that takes a LOT of practice!
Although not totally germane to this, X-Plane aftermarket SSG-747 and itâs flare is also not quite up to snuff, lands hard, this using ILS/Autoland. Did not notice any flare last evening, but if did finally find LOC/ILS and landed on RW.
Both, and have flown both, have their quirks. I normally try to take over at 1/2 mile, or maybe little further out, the throttle control, shooting for 150-160 knots. Than if can, take over last part of the approach and landing, then I get the flare I want. Both of them are very difficult to get just so for me. PMDG737 is the best one, and XPs 737 is also very good as well.
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The autoland is very unstable right now (Said by WT) Still needs a lot of work
Yes, that is definitely the problem, the current flight model makes you have to flare above 50ft, when FCOM says at 30ft, the plane behaves strangely here somehow
VREF+10 and flare at 50ft should be the solution to make a decent landing between 100 and 200fpm
All - I will say, airspeed makes huge difference in flare and landing, the FMC has you input flap/speed setting I think, do not go below that speed setting, or plane gets even more squirrely.
On my side I do not know why when I manually land the 747 while A/T is on and airspeed is managed by autopilot, when I idle and touchdown, the A/T does not disconnect and engine does not idle. Maybe I spend too much time with the Airbus 
Iâm typed in the 744/748 and tbh, I didnât like the 748. Landings were almost always firm. Thereâs a flare assist (not sure if itâs actually modeled) that really messed with the feel of the flare. Even the smoothest landings werenât âsmoothâ because of the way the flare assist works, and how the speed brakes extended. When touching down, and the wing gear un-tilted, the speed brakes would dump the lift too quickly. So even though the touchdown was actually smooth, the sudden lift dump made it feel firm.
Also, not sure if itâs modeled, but the inboard and mid span leading edge flaps retract when you pull the reversers, which helps with speed brake effectiveness. So if itâs not modeled, then you could have an âairborneâ feeling which causes you to dump the elevator, causing the nose gear to drop too rapidly.
The technique I used was at 50â start thinking about flaring. At 30â gradually bring the power to idle while simultaneously pulling (and I say âpullâ with hesitation, because itâs not a pull necessarily) on the yoke to adjust your sink rate. As you pull power, the plane will want to increase its descent, youâre just slowing that rate to compensate for the loss of thrust. Remember, your pitch attitude will already be such that youâre essentially in a âflare.â In the final moments of the flare, reduce some of the back pressure to lower your nose ever so slightly. In doing so, you actually raise the mains a bit to âroll it on.â Speed control is huge here because if youâre too slow, you can over flare and hit the tail. Too fast and youâll float.
Itâs a lot to take in, but just keep practicing. The landing challenges will help you fine tune your technique.
PS With heavy jets, and any transport category jet, itâs really important to continue flying the plane until it stops. Those huge wings want to keep on flying, so you have to keep control of the plane until it comes to a stop.
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Having the same issue not being able to get the 747-8 to land below âfirmâ. I have gotten to the point where I keep re-loading the sim on approach so I can practice my landings over and over and the 748 is incredibly inconsistent. The aircraft either flares too much or not at all. I have also noticed that power management is finicky as well. I do not turn off auto throttle when I disengage auto pilot as I didnât think that was necessary (maybe Iâm wrong). I have noticed that I get very hard landings when I cut the power too early. The issue is, I am forced to start my flare earlier than the recommended 30 ft and then reduce power at around 20 ft or even 10 ft while I am holding my flare. Then it seems that you have to âget luckyâ because when you were pulling the throttle back, thereâs a chance you pulled the flare too much and you will float and if you float with no power, you fall like a ton of bricks. Finally, speed recommendations seem to be way off. I will see that aircraft give a VREF of ~125 to 135 kts and even with +10, there is risk of stall when you get close to the runway (the yoke even shakes). I usually have to pick my own landing speed at around 150 kts. I refuse to believe this flight model is anywhere close to real life.
To add to the above, I re-load the sim using the exact same conditions:
- Same airport/runway
- Same flap settings
- Same landing speed (sometimes +/- 5 kts just to see if it makes a difference)
- Same weather conditions (clear skies with a manually set altimeter and no wind)
- Same time of day (around noon)
- Same weight and balance settings (fuel amount, payload, and CG balance)
The other sim also has a purchase type 747, and itâs got issues too. Half of the time no ILS approach even though the indicators show up, if I go back and do a 10 mile out approach, that works and sometimes it does not. So nothing is good with any of the 747s available right now. FSX has a great one, old, but it flies fine.
P3D does too,XP has a 747 classic
One of our type rated 74 test pilots liked the flight model so much, as he felt he could use actual muscle memory from the real airframe into the sim, and the speed and loading feel were exactly what he expected. The FM is very on the numbers, as well.
The key is to be pretty smooth in your inputs. Itâs very easy to load up those massive wings and not get quite the response you think, as they absorb a lot of pitch energy. And you can easily get into a scenario where the wings have loaded up into an undesirable AOA before the the forward vector of the plane starts changing and the AOA comes back down. Be ahead of the plane at all times and plan your flare mentally ahead of time.
Additionally, test pilots reported that the autoland is not incredibly consistent, either. Itâs job isnât designed for pax comfort first, itâs to get you on the ground first, because it doesnât have the reaction of an actual human. Test pilots said 400fpm was not unheard of, although those huge rear bogies really absorb a ton, so that only really feels âfirmâ and not âcatastrophicâ.
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Any chance there was mention of the super low VREF speeds and if you really are able to land the aircraft below 140 kts?
In the other sim, as part of programing in your FP, one of the choices you make is flap and landing speed. I get 130KIAS and 30 Degrees as a choice lots of time, have not seen it slower than that. FWIW-Flying the Freighter version and itâs maxes out close to million pounds, and no, the landing in Autoland is not smooth, but you know your down. It actually flyâs very well, aside from either me or the plane not seeing the ILS.
The VRef speeds are straight from the manufacturer FCOM performance tables.
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