BeyondATC

This is only true for physical properties of the airport itself (like runways, taxiways): physical, tangible, three dimensional things loaded into the sim that are unavoidable. For example, you cannot land at a runway that won’t be shown in the sim, even if it’s in the Navigraph data, nor can you taxi down a taxiway that isn’t in the scenery even if it wanted you to.

This is actualy a little better than the normal scenario where developers include their own copy of Navigraph data, because you can run into situations where the data includes runways that aren’t in the scenery, and you don’t know it until you get to airport and look ahead to see nothing usable. You can pick an approach to a runway which won’t exist when you get there in the sim in something like the PMDG or the Fenix. As a concrete example, both of those planes will happily let you pick the RNAV 33L Z into KBWI, despite the fact that runway does not presently exist in the sim base data.

However, all other data (waypoints, intersections, airways, radio navaids, departures, arrivals, approaches, etc) will come from the installed Navigraph navdata. It is impossible via the API to discard this information, and thus impossible for BATC. It will always have whatever navdata you have installed plus whatever physical airport layout you have installed.

To reiterate, the sim navdata API provides (and thus BATC uses) the following:

  • All approaches, arrivals, departures, waypoints, NDBs, VORs, ILSs, airways, airspace definitions from the installed AIRAC (stock or Navigraph)
  • Airport physical layout (runways, taxiways, gates, parking) from the installed scenery (stock or addons)
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This explanation makes sense, but is the LIMA4G SID not available for RWY 34R at SPJC in the example above because that runway doesn’t exist in that scenery? Otherwise I’m not sure why that procedure is disallowed in BATC if it’s in the Navigraph data.

Yes, for procedures that terminate in airport layout structures that do not exist, those procedures cannot be loaded by the sim from the underlying data.

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So am I right in suggesting that the sim needs to catch up to the nav data. Meaning if the nav data (including an up to date airac) has a SID. STAR or approach for any airport then the sim should really have an airport to make those procedures work. Is that the gist of it?

I think so, the airport’s AFCAD needs to match the navdata’s AIRAC. For example, if the AIRAC says there’s two runways, but the airport is only showing one it won’t force you to land on a non existent runway.

Even with a Navigarph account, that does not necessarily (Typically) mean that you have the correct & needed data – Navigraph , unfortunately, has some severe errors & omissions.

(maybe because even navigraph cannot always get access to 100% accurate data, so not their fault)

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The real world isn’t 100% accurate either.

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Maybe BATC should include an option to ignore these errors, especially since they cannot control airport scenery data.

That may be correct but in rl the controller can react to that.

So I tried what you wrote, I entered HALMN (no hyphen) as callsign for my Longitude HA-LMN and now I was Hawaiian MN.. not a deal breaker, but I’d be quite happy to hva flying without a callsign actually work. I’ll post a suggestion on the BATC feedback/suggestion page, but of course I have to admit it’s not top priority. There are quite a few thing that I think should be prioritised above this, for example requesting a different approach/runway than the one assigned.

Still flying from a towered airport to a towered airport went pretty nice, even as it is now, I think 30$ was a bargain for BATC, no more flights without ATC. I guess even if traffic injection will be added and all kinks ironed out Vatsim will be preferable, but ONLY if coverage from and to is a given. Otherwise no more silent flights for me. Good job Cap! :saluting_face: :saluting_face: :saluting_face:

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FYI Beyond ATC works great when used on a tablet that is setup as a touchscreen.

I have Splashtop Wired XDisplay for an older Andriod tablet as a second touchscreen in Windows.

I just drag BeyondATC to it and I can interact with it great via touch.

YMMV with various tablets and external screen software.

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This airport is still under construction, don’t expect from Asobo to keep the scenery up to date. There are international airports that are still missing in MSFS, 5 years after they were build - see LTFM the 2nd-busiest airport in Europe after Heathrow in 2023.

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Finally got BATC up and running in last night’s stream. Here’s a quick synopsis:

I loaded into MSFS at Boulder City Airport (KBVU) in the Royal Duke.

Since I knew I needed a SimBrief flight plan, I generated a quick flight plan without really changing anything. KBVU direct LYNSY direct KIFP. Interesting to note that SB automatically assigned me an IFR cruising altitude of 5500(!) and a departure runway of 33, when the winds clearly favored runway 9.

I then fired up BATC. The BATC UI is very straight forward: put in your SimBrief ID, speak a test phrase, make sure your PTT and other settings are good to go (had a slight issue with mapping a button, but that was on my end). One thing to note - I couldn’t see an interface to change the output audio, so it was all going through my studio speakers instead of my headset, which did make it hard to hear a couple things later. I suppose I need to change the default audio output for BATC in Windows.

Once I had the plane running, I simply tuned Las Vegas departure (BVU is non-towered) per the actual charts and requested clearance. That worked well, however, I was assigned an initial altitude of 6,000 (good) and a final of 6,600 (!). To be fair, it’s not far to LYNSY, and it is the IAF at IFP with a minimum segment altitude of 6600, so that could be SOP down there, but I expected final cruise to be more like 8,000. No worries, though.

The only other thing that struck me up to this point was the ATC clearance to taxi at KBVU, which again is non-towered, so that’s a little unusual. Usually it’s either a “call me when ready for release” or just a “hold for release until” and it’s up to me when to move the aircraft. Oh well. I thought the expect further clearance (EFC) instruction was well done.

I taxied to runway 9, as it was most favorable, and departed. Here’s where things got weird. There is no charted departure procedure at BVU, but there is a textual one, so I followed the instructions for runway 9, which is a right turn to 180°, intercept the BLD R-150, and climb to 7600 on course direct LYNSY. I made the turn after the obligatory climb to 400’ AGL and contacted Las Vegas departure, who then started vectoring me back to the north on a reading of 325(!), which is specific, but nonsensical. I realized that they were basically taking me back to the starting point over the field. I could chalk this up to a quasi-VCOA or traffic needs, but it didn’t make a ton of sense to not have me go direct LYNSY considering my filed route and rate of climb.

Anyway, after BATC got me back on their course and direct LYNSY, I was given a climb and maintain 6,600. I read that back, with my callsign (“1SB”) and was corrected numerous times (even pausing between the readback altitude and callsign in case it was parsing the “1” as part of the altitude, but to no avail. I eventually just read back the altitude with no callsign and it was accepted. Er… no. That was probably the most glaring procedural hiccup on what was an otherwise pretty good flight.

The rest of the flight went pretty well. I enjoyed the sector handoffs, the approach clearance, and the handoff to the tower. The runway exit instructions are vague, there’s no ground handoff or taxi instructions. I expected that due to report here that ground ops aren’t yet implemented, but maybe just a “taxi to parking, remain this frequency” would be a nice finish to a session.

Also, it would be cool to personalize ATC sendoff responses, especially when the frequency is not busy “good bye, good night, so long, SEEya,” etc in response to mine.

So after one session, I’m pretty excited, to be honest. Yes, there are some gaps in logic - it pretty much needs you to be “on the rails” and getting there seemed a bit sloppy, especially in a non-SID, non-towered environment. But there’s an incredible amount of potential here. I’m most excited to see implementation of VFR ops and interaction with other traffic.

What I also envision this doing, in a perfect world, is filling the gap when VATSIM sectors are offline. Enroute, it should be close enough to use in its current form. But a huge opportunity is bridging the gap to relieve the top-down clearance/ground/tower ops at satellite fields. Of course, the issue will be BATC getting the aircraft to a point where a VATSIM center or approach expects it, and executing facility coordination and subsequent frequency handoff between BATC and VATSIM. Tall order, I know, but if done properly, this could be a game changer. The hardest part IMO is going to make sure everybody is able to comply with the instructions, which is no different than the current issues, but I don’t know how I’d expect BATC to handle that along with handing aircraft over to a human controller: “I’ve got an A320’ that’s assigned a heading of 330 but is flying southbound and not talking to me.” lol. :winking_face_with_tongue:

Overall, currently 6/10 with the understanding it will get better as it’s developed and well-needed features are added. It’s actually really nice once you’re at cruise. An absolute bargain at the current price point. If applied to a sliding scale of lowered early-release expectations, I’d say more like 8.5/10 as it did nearly everything I expected it to do, save for the things I mentioned above.

I’m going to try integrating a BATC cruise portion with an offline VATSIM segment next time I get a chance.

I keep wondering whether the soon-to-be-released MSFS Hub will result in airports that have more complete/correct data for BATC to play with.

I guess it might depend on whether MS/Asobo insist on it in any criteria they might set for acceptance of community-modded airports???

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I mean, there’s probably no way that the BATC devs are going to have either the will or the means to update over 30,000 airports, but if they were to point community devs in the right direction, they would potentially have a fairly hefty workforce helping them out.

I’m hoping World Hub will fix this and other problems with procedural airports.

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If I recall correctly, one thing you currently can’t do in World Hub is to fix an incorrect runway (missing, changed magnetic direction, etc…) so that would still require a sim-side scenery update.

Sorry but you said a lot of obvious things, it’s obvious that if the RNWY doesn’t exist BATC can’t get you to take off or land.

But the problem at LPPT is exactly the opposite, the RNWY 35 no longer exists for years but BATC offered me the RNWY 35 even though in the Simbrief plan the runway was 02, where did BATC find the RNWY 35?
It’s not there in the MKSTUDIOS’s scenary, maybe it’s buried in the stack airport, maybe marked as a closed runway!
I always maintain updated MSFS and FENIX with the latest AIRAC with Navigraph Hub but from my experience BATC seems to ignore them.

I would also add that it can be immersive to listen to the English spoken in Bhutan but if I can’t take off or land in PARO because the procedures are not updated or are incomplete, I don’t care about BATC.

I hope that in the near future, developers will include in BATC the option to use updated AIRAC Navigraphs as the first choice and scenary/airport data as the second choice.

Hmm. I’ve been able to re-designate, delete, and add runways in the World Hub. I’m not sure at what level this changes the data that ATC use, but the scenery reflects it. Case in point - I successfully removed KSAC runway 16/34, which has been closed for the better part of a decade.

Maybe delete, but I think, for example, if the scenery file has an old runway heading that has changed, you can’t fix that in World Hub. Would be happy to be wrong because there are several cases of this in the stock airports.