Pilot2ATC doesn’t see much use these days given how far along the other two products are, but I hear a new version is in development and will be interested to give it another go at that time.
My current use pattern is:
SI for VFR, or nothing.
SI for IFR if I feel like talking to ATC.
BATC in “Copilot” mode when I don’t want to talk to ATC.
Both products do a reasonable job with IFR, but with each one every now and then you hit a bump. I don’t worry about that too much because 1) both products are still in beta and 2) I’m the PIC and aviate & navigate come first.
In my experience BATC mostly calls for descent in time, but occasionally it misses. IRL no pilot is going to sit there being obstinate as that makes no sense at all, obviously they are going to request descent. On the few occasions BATC misses descent I’ve called ready for descent and it has worked every time.
Personally I prefer that there’s a bit of variation. I’m sure IRL there are occasions where pilots have to ask for descent, I prefer that to be simulated as it makes it necessary to keep ahead of the plane and not just be a robot responding to ATC.
Whether it’s deliberate or not, I hope BATC continues to forget to tell me to descend, at least occasionally.
Agreed. On VATSIM (my version of “reality” ), usually controllers proactively say “descend via [STAR]”, but sometimes I have to call for descent. I usually wait until 10 miles before TOD before calling, and hope the controller isn’t too busy at the time to get my call in.
Same with BATC: don’t hesitate to call “ready for descent” prior to the “green donut”.
I wanted to see what would trigger the descent. It happened to be the VOR, unfortunately for me that was about 60nm too late. I can’t remember ever having to request a descent IRL, only in VATSIM when I’m going into an airport in the sticks and the top-down center controller isn’t focusing on that area. I’d rather wait for them to tell me, that’s more realistic and if they’re keeping me high they usually have a good reason for it, but IRL I wouldn’t let it go nearly as far as I did last night. The program had no reason to keep me that high, which is why I’m laughing. It’s apples and oranges.
I did just yesterday, but I was transiting the terminal control area of one large airport VFR and I wanted to get down below the adjoining large airport’s TCA to enter the underlying Class C of my destination airport. I was on a VFR flight plan so ATC knew where I was going but they didn’t offer the descent on their own. I had to ask for it.
I often use FStraffic, wich use historic traffic instead of live traffic, and I can’t notice the difference. It injects the correct traffic for the hour you set in the sim. Beleave me, that’s not a deal breaker.
I should have qualified “while IFR.” VFR yeah, you do have to tell them what you want to do because they’re not squashing you down toward an IAF or feeder fix.
Can you give me a definition of what live traffic means? Please don’t take this a being sarcastic, I truly would like an idea because I (my opinion only) state that it is impossible to have truly live traffic that I as a player can interact with in FS or any other sim.
From my perspective and understanding the only true ‘live traffic’ available for FS2020 is PSXT. The sim does not control it in any way shape or form and I can’t interact with it. It is simply sequential displayed position updates of current RW aircraft.
In this case, the Class C airport does have standard arrival routes via VFR waypoints in order to keep departing and arriving aircraft out of each other’s hair. So not an IFR initial approach fix, but similar concept. I had to get to the start of the appropriate arrival route for the active runway at the prescribed altitude.
I am looking forward to the day when some of those types of ATC interactions are modeled in the game for VFR flying. With the advent of these new “smarter” ATC add-ons, it at least seems that it will eventually be possible.
The in-game “Real Time Live Traffic” setting is what I consider LIVE. From my experience, It is only about 10 mins delayed from what Flight Aware shows. I have often flown ‘real time’ alongside a family members or friends flight.
The closest to “Real Traffic” as far as I know is the freeby FSLTL. This takes its data from Flightradar 24 and injects it into the sim, whereupon the sim ATC handles it - but it then is no longer “real”. Experimentation has shown that there is approx a 30 sec delay, so the sim traffic is slightly behind real. You can see all this happening in Little Navmap, another freebie, which will display other traffic around you. I’ve just completed a flight showing this perfectly.
But as far as BATC is concerned, this is all moot because BATC will be using its own injector, we are told, using a historical database from FR24. So this will not in fact be “real” traffic, as in it’s happening now, but will provide a realistic scenario.
Data is expensive so the only way traffic can be “real” is some sort of financial arrangement, and even then it is hugely difficult to make it work. The BATC devs have said they do not wish to go down this road.
you will have the same traffic in a scheduled non live traffic injection. If you are flying on a Tuesday at 5:00 p.m., it will inject the real traffic of a Tuesday at 5:00 p.m. What’s the difference?
Thank you for the clarification, I do understand your concern better when viewed from that perspective. I suppose that just a 10 min or so delay could qualify as live traffic.
I guess I tend to look at it from the ‘it’s a simulation’ perspective in that any ‘live’ RW flight that gets injected into the sim will very quickly not in any sense be live anymore. From that viewpoint in matters less if it is a 10 min or 10 day delay from the actual flight, both are (were) nothing more than RW flights being controlled by the sim.
They are already possible with SayIntentions. (It can do VRP’s and VFR traffic corridors in the US and UK, not sure about elsewhere) Might be more challenging for BATC with it’s more scripted format.
I would say that this is not really the case, when I fly with FSLTL which injects AI traffic in real time, I keep the MSFS ATC active to listen flight number and Flightaware opened on a dedicated monitor.
When I see another plane crossing my route in SIM and I also see it in RL in Flightaware I must say that it is very immersive.
If it were ten days earlier it wouldn’t be the same.
I understand what you are explaining and it is each to their own.
I dont find any immersion in the default MSFS atc same voices, transitional altitude 18000 feet and the same pressure alttitude, I dont, just fly around United states of America.
I like regional accents, real transitional altitutde That to me, is more immersive.
Beyond atc and sayintentions ai are my goto.
Like someone said its a personal preference, and BATC is not for them.
Maybe you don’t understand well, I also use BATC but by leaving the ATC of the SIM active, in this way in addition to BATC I can also listen to the ATC of the traffic injected by FSLTL, I hope I have explained myself.
), usually controllers proactively say “descend via [STAR]”, but sometimes I have to call for descent. I usually wait until 10 miles before TOD before calling, and hope the controller isn’t too busy at the time to get my call in.