Black Square Steam Gauge Overhaul - Cessna 208B Caravan

I appreciate your willingness to help, but it’s not the reliability of the auto-launch that I take issue with.

First of all, I don’t appreciate that the installer now silently adds an executable that is auto-launched. It’s not mentioned in the patch notes, nor in the updated manual as far as I can see, and would have gone unnoticed for a while if the exe.xml process wouldn’t be as broken as it is. I assume this was a simple oversight, because even from a supportability perspective I think you’d want to inform your customers of this new requirement upfront.

I agree that having one “tiny” additional exe does not make a dent in the amount of processes that are being scheduled every second on my CPU already. But in my opinion it’s the precedent for plane developers in general that this sets.

As I m not a fenix owner, I don’t really know if it s the same file involving for both cases (here we are speaking about a tiny file not a whole application.

It’s not the same file, and that’s kind of the issue. Currently there are a handful of aircraft that use external processes. Some have a reasonably good reason to do so (helicopters were not supported by the sim SDK so far) which I hope can be overcome as the sim becomes more capable. In these cases the choice was to either have an exe or no reasonably realistic helicopter at all.

The reason in case of the Caravan that you were given by Nicholas seems to be performance (“We decided to put a lot of the shared code in an external application for performance reasons”). I appreciate the fact that this plane is more complex than your average GA plane, but there are already some fairly complex airliners in the sim that manage performance without an .exe. I also find it a bit curious, as my CPU is not very beefy and had no issues with this plane previously. Also looking through the thread it does not seem like this was a major issue for most users (especially compared to something like the Carenado PC-12, which seems to be a real performance hog).

Performance is something that every developer faces, and I know that with WASM running on the main thread the CPU budget is limited and trying to fit complex systems is not trivial. But I don’t think that the solution here is for every developer to just sidestep that limitation by introducing executables for every plane.

If devs really reach the limits with the optimizations they can do there are other options. Asobo already agreed that having multi-thread support for WASM is something they think is worth looking into, so maybe they need to be reminded of this again. (https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/idea/246/support-multithreading-for-wasm-gauges.html)

Am I weird or “foolish” for caring about these things? Maybe. And I also assume that I’m in a minority small enough to not convince any developer to change their mind about this, but I cannot with good conscience support this. I don’t want to start MSFS in 2026 and wonder why my exe.xml is a mess and some plane is not working again because one of these 60 external processes was either not properly installed/started or crashed again.

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he’s running only if you get in the plane, never knew it was a auto launcher thought O_o

want to inform your customers of this new requirement upfront.

I m a simple user :-/ enthousiast user probably :slight_smile:

Well look you are very concern about the fact it s an “exe” …

well learnt a lot after lot from mails exchanged while debugging procedure, it s not just a little pilatus as far as I know, this plane with the weather radar wich store a unique faillures system, wich “store” also state saving seems to be on JF’s side servers so they need imo their own exec since some feature can not be implemented directly from msfs sdk tools … I m not expert and this is just my little “understanding” of some things around this plane, I can be wrong !

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Sorry for not being clear, I didn’t mean you personally. I understand you are just a user in contact with the dev that wants to help, which I really appreciate.

The InstrumentUtils.exe is definitely started with the sim, not the plane. Obviously it will only really use resources once the plane is started. I would really hope that it’s not simulating a Caravan in the background even when I’m flying a completely different plane. :laughing:

But again, it’s less about the resources and more about the dependency and troubleshooting nightmare this introduces over time if this becomes common practice.

I will stop this discussion here. I am not out to convince others to adapt my view on this topic, as different people have different things they deem more important. I have already tried to contact the dev and fully accept that this may just be a fact for BlackSquare products going forward.

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At least it should be made very transparent to the customer so that everyone knows what this exe is meant for and when it is used. So everyone can make an informed decision whether or not to buy.

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Is this normal for other 3rd party planes too? I think PMDG has an externalprogram, but are there others besides rhis one?

Also would be interesting to know the performance impact.

It’s not (yet) that common for planes as far as I can tell. PMDG planes (737, DC-6) run entirely in sim. CRJ and the 146 do as well. Fenix runs almost entirely in an .exe. Most helicopters need an .exe at the moment. The FBW A32NX now has an optional external process called simbridge that adds features when active (terrain display, remote MCDU). I am not aware of any other GA plane at the moment that needs an external process, even those that are more “feature rich” (C310, C414, Sting S4, Kodiak).

There are some addon mods that run externally, like avionics (TDS), AI traffic injectors (AIG, FSLTL), GSX, etc.

I’m sure I have forgotten a couple, but I don’t think it’s common practice for planes at the moment.

Installed 0.1.2 and my exe.xml is loading InstrumentUtils correctly. No errors.

I believe going forward more and more developers will use external processes for a simple reason - anti piracy that actually works. That is something I support, but flightsim developers were known to install outright malware/spyware to paying customers in the past, so I understand scepticism from having bunch of random stuff installed on your PC.

MS and Asobo should continue working on providing framework that enables everything that is now external to be internal to MSFS so that user trust can be placed on them, while still protecting intellectual property of developers.

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Any ideas as to what this EXE is actually doing to the plane? If you didn’t want it running, what would stop you from sticking to an older version of the plane, but copying across all the .CFG files etc. from the new to the old?

I’m not sure what it does tbh. I only did a quick test what’d happen without the .exe and was able to start up the plane just fine. It’s “just” the avionics that don’t seem to be working properly. The weather radar is INOP and the failure screens are not available. Also, the GPS seems to turn off after a couple of seconds (at least the GNS530/430, I don’t have any GTN750).

As I said, I’ll keep flying 1.1 as I can live without the changes made in 1.2 I’d rather not go down the road of copying bits and pieces from one version to another.

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I was thinking more along the lines of flight model tweaks rather than systems. I’ll download, then compare the CFG’s for that, and probably upload the diffs here if anyone is interested.

there were also changes made to the torque bloom and itt. they also updated some sounds so now the annunciator panel alarms make a sound like they should. there is also a noticeable difference in ground handling between 1.1 and 1.2.

i was able to get rid of the stuttering by REM’ing out the wx radar (obv not a long-term solution) so there’s something going on there, at least on my setup.

i am probably going to reinstall 1.1 so i can continue to enjoy the plane for now but i would like to have the new functionality from 1.2 as soon as they can figure out what’s causing the issues i am experiencing.

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Yes, I unzipped it, and noticed the ground handling changes. I had 1.4 set for friction, they have 1.3. The crosswind was pretty close too. I had been planning to set it up just like I did with the 172, leaving the crosswind set to -1000 for both, then adjust the tyre friction till a crosswind landing at maximum demonstrated was still possible. In the 172 that was around 10, though I haven’t had a chance to adjust that down to find out where it is no longer possible.

Next week then? :confused:

Yep. We had hope. Hope faded. It will indeed be next week.

Rest assured though, the work being completed now is vital to the project, our dev isn’t away sunning himself on an exotic beach somewhere, he’s consumed in his work to ensure it’s as it needs to be on release.

Thanks again for your patience. Have a good weekend all!

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All good! thanks for the keep us informed!

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I am probably a dumbo, but I can’t for the life of me figure out how to change to hpa on my altimeter.
In the docs it says how to change it, but my altimeter doesn’t look like it does in the docs…

it s not possible as far as I know, maybe an error in the manual, you need to convert by your own way

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Thanks, then I know to bust out my conversion chart :slight_smile:
Hope they fix it though…

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Nobody forced you to report a date. What you’re doing with this “Today, Tomorrow, The day after tomorrow”, is to annoy the serious customers. Very simple you can write we have serious problem with our project and please don’t wait that we can solve it in a short time. End.