I’m using the BN-2 Islander from BlackBox Simulations which I downloaded from the Market Place. In general I’m loving it but I’m a little surprised how hard it is to off the ground without a lot of elevator input.
Anyone else feel the same?
Setup is:
• Just Pilot and a single passenger to balance the pilot out, no baggage and 25% fuel.
• Flaps set to Take-off.
• Elevator trim at Take-off (0 degrees).
• Prop speed set to maximum.
• Mixture set to rich.
• Low level airport 27ft.
• Throttles to max.
First thing I suggest with any user who has an “Unflyable” Aircraft would be to make sure you are using the MODERN FLIGHT MODEL from your MSFS Options and definitely NOT the LEGACY FLIGHT MODEL as this is intended for FSX Ports or Low quality flight models that don’t utilize the MSFS 2020 features.
Secondly though as the other responder has suggested … You MUST Use takeoff trim … its noted in the Manual and Tutorial flight
Since the only payload sits in the front, the CG is pretty forward I guess. Might need some extra back pressure to rotate. I can’t remember if Islander has a trim chart. Neutral trim might be correct in some small planes.
It is a lot harder to get off the ground than the v1 was, you’re right - you could pull the nose up on the v1 aircraft from 35-40ish kts for a proper soft surface short field t/o; unless you stick all the load in the rear the v2 is more like 65/70 which is rather exceeding what it needs to fly usually. Islander pilot aquaintance assures me the previous behaviour is much more correct ( likewise you can’t hold the nose up after landing either ). Admittedly he’s not flown one for 20 years…
I do believe a little trim is generally used on t/o.
Just to make sure, with elevator trim equipped airplanes, there’s only very little difference in the ability to take off, regardless of the trim setting.
There are Instructors who let their students fly complete circuits with the trim full up and full down to demonstrate the ability to fly a mistrimmed plane.
This is of course not recommended with stab trim equipped planes.
OK so it looks like I’m pretty much the only one who feels it is hard to get off the deck.
@Crimguy You are correct the Flight Manual (Thanks to BlackBox for the download) does talk of neutral trim at Pre-Tak-Off Checks. And it was what I remembered from my FSX days.
@NightMercury358 I was running the MODERN FLIGHT MODEL and had failed to notice the +10% (+0.6° I reckon) trim in the tutorial. I’ll be giving that a go. (btw Loving the FS20 Islander it is a nice upgrade from the FSX one)
@VanDisaster I’ve only really flown the v2 version but thanks for the real pilot insight is always interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNlcY7gXtu0 see how you can pick the nose up on T/O & hold it there on landing, that’s my main complaint about the v2, you just can’t do that without upsetting the cg - I’ve seen islanders personally & plenty of vids doing soft field procedures like that. There’s a flight test around where it mentioned holding the nose off the ground until somewhere in the 30ish kts.
Pull the flaps up if you do that yourself, btw it didn’t make any difference in that particular flight but I should havce.
I just bought the BN-2 on the marketplace as well (big sale), and I’ve noticed that the flaps do NOTHING other than create drag. Not even the slightest amount of lift. I did a test in the air, and adding flaps creates absolutely no lift, but then I start slowing and sinking. Same deal with the stall warning horn. 50 knots regardless of flaps fully retracted or fully extended. It seems something is wrong with their flight model.
If that reply was meant for me, I am using the modern flight model.
If there are any tests I can do that would help you confirm or deny my findings so far, please let me know and I’ll be happy to oblige. I’ve always liked this ugly bird.
I just did one more test in more controlled conditions. Long runway, no wind, trimmed nose up so aircraft can rotate without yoke input.
Flaps full up: rotate at 80 knots
Flaps full down: rotate around 86 knots
I also did a straight & level test in the same conditions flying about 110kn with flaps up. When I shift to flaps full down, the plane pitches slightly up momentarily (gets to about +5 on VSI), then starts to dive and pick up speed.
These behaviors are decidedly not in line with what I would expect from flap behavior. Especially the big honking flaps on the Islander.
The pitch up at flap extension is normal, but after starting to pitch down (which is also normal) the plane should stabilize at a lower speed after a few pitch oscillations.
To correctly do a precise stall test you need to be at idle throttle and trim for a hands off descent at approach speed.
Once that’s established, pull slightly back on the yoke to achieve a ~1kt/sec speed reduction. Increase back pressure on the yoke until the plane stalls.
Do not trim after establishing the descent.
I did a test trimming for ~80-85 KIAS in level flight at about 6,000 ft.
Set first stage of flaps (Take off) and the aircraft just nosed down and started descending.
Levelled it out again and trimmed for ~80-85 KIAS and set the next stage of flaps (Full) and the aircraft again nosed down and started descending.
Certainly seems at odds with other aircraft I have flown. sPK
Edit: Stall testing. Basically few to 3,500 ft levelled out at 65 KIAS throttle at idle. Slowly pulled back on the yoke to reduce speed.
Noted when the stall warning sounded and when the aircraft snapped into the stall.
Just checked my BN-2 manual.
Interestingly no stall speeds mentioned, but that’s what I’ve found.
Approach speed with flaps 25 (take off) 65kts.
Approach speed with flaps up also 65kts plus the note to expect some float during the flare.
Threshold speed at MLW and full flaps is 58kts.
Looks like the stall speeds are pretty accurate.
Never heard about a ‘snap’ stall, but many airplanes are developing just a mild nose drop at the stall and some can’t be stalled at all with partial or full flaps extended.
When I was testing the stalling I could induce a stall where the aircraft spun violently to the right, except for the case of “Full flaps” where all I could induced (even with the column full back) was the nose dropping. At which point the aircraft would speed up and stall again… sPK
That’s exactly what many planes do IRL. Most if not all of the King Airs do that and are known for their docile stall behavior.
Even with flaps up IIRC.
Anecdotally, the Islander can stall as low as about 40kts & it’s very benign & not sudden, more a pa-28-esque mushing around - I think usually it’s probably a little higher. Also anecdotally - I never paid enough attention irl which I now regret -there’s not a massive change in trim with different stages of flap.
Everything is 65mph, they say I’m also reliably informed that losing an engine mostly just reduces noise ( and climb performance! ), there’s an excess of rudder authority.
it didn’t make any difference in that particular flight but I should havce.