even 144fps with microstutters with spikes going like a roller coaster will make it look less smooth than a stable 60fps image.
i agree with that. - but saying there is no benefit to having a setup running at 60 v 30 is incredibly backwards
agree also, but most people here think fps = smoothness
or āit looks smooth to me, so it should be smooth for everyoneā
I mean I wish it was really stable, we wouldnāt have over 500 topics about performance with high-end setups if the sim was actually stable
(granted the sim is in itās early stages, so lets give it some time and see how it turns out)
1.Thatās exactly what this thread is about! I donāt care about graphs and counters.
Simply look at the monitor! Smooth or not. End of story.
2.Maybe things are different in gaming than in flight simming.
When doing e.g .aerobatics Iām locking fps to 60 which is perfectly smooth even in the very fast maneuvering case.
I wasnāt replying to your post specifically, but the topic. I understand where youāre coming from with expectations and money spent.
I guess it depends on how you look at it and how much you know about how FS runs and processes data. I have a very unobtrusive fps counter on all the time and it keeps me in the loop to whatās going on behind the scenes.
Knowing what your normal range is can be a good way to help determine if thereās some performance issue going on. Itās also a good way to know what areas take a fps hit (ie urban/photogrammetry areas). Iām not an fps chaser by any means and stuttering is the real enemy, but for me having a counter visible at all times is a good thing and doesnāt at all take away from the experience.
If you donāt care about the performance of the sim thatās your opinion tho and I respect that.
But in my opinion it has a vast amount of work to do on this subject.
Like I said before, we need to give it some time.
Itās an ambitious project, weāll probably see some performance optimizations at summer or after.
Stuttering / freezes is the main experience killer here, not a specific FPS value. Of cource there is FPS like 15, you canāt fully enjoy precision of controls.
And just from my personal experiences - as a real world pilot I can subjectively compare. So, letās say for average GA aircraft like C172, at 30 FPS (without stutters) I have for sure enough control and reactivity to be able safely control my aircraft in all situations. In reality, there are things like inertia that also lower ractivity of controls (And this effect is stronger for heavier ACFTs), so no real difference of ācontrolling the aircraftā experience when comparing 30 and 60 FPS in-sim with real world flying. Nothing else to say here.
Performance is very important for a sim IMO.
Thatās one of the few reasons why I did use Aerofly FS2.
Usually 60fps are required for 100% smoothness in my experience, thatās why I was surprised that MSFS is so smooth at 30fps.
OK, thanks for understanding and my apologies.
Have you tried this? It makes a drastic difference in fluidity - this is why all modern developers target this as a goal
Iād argue that the difference from 15>30 isnāt close to as big an impact as 30>60 but you really are going to feel the difference.
Brining up the shooter argument - the reason these e-sports players target HFR is it helps their reaction time. They are receiving more feedback (frames) from the display.
This is equivalent to making tiny control surface adjustments on flare before touchdown. Landing at 25 fps v 60fps - the edge will go to the 60fps player. He is receiving more āinformationā from the sim and able to adjust quicker. (smoothness and frame drops taken out of the discussion). Iām not trying to present the case that you NEED it to enjoy it. But there is an impact in how it āfeelsā to play. I guess weāre getting in the weeds over this though lol.
Yes, Iāve tried this - 60 FPS vs 30 FPS in-sim (and also different sims) in C172 (gauges) vs real world C172.
Believe me - not so high differences in control responsiveness / smoothness experience between these three cases. But still my subjective comparison / feelings, so Iām not trying to persuade anyone else of āmy truthā.
EDIT: And yes, maybe personally Iām affected by my real world flying, focusing not only on visual experience, but for me flying is very complex experience that most ācheap / SWā sims really canāt offer.
Although there virtually no differenece in āsmoothnessā during the flare between 30 and 60fps I agree that thereās slightly more āfeelā at the higher framerate.
I am running between 30-40 typically , I donāt have anything Iād say is an āissueā where itās negatively impacting my good times with MSFS - but 60 is subjectively better. Iām not a PPL but i do have some hands on experience just because i fly with my boss who has his PPL at least once a month and who irresponsibly lets me take control once in a while. (SR22t).
We (well most of us poors lol) donāt have control loading yokes so we rely ONLY on the visual experience within the sim. We arenāt getting that physical feedback from the control surfaces in sim. From my limited experience that was the biggest eye opener for sim v real life.
The only feedback you get in MSFS is 100% visual from that monitor. The higher your frame rates (assuming all things stutterless) the more information you are receiving and can act on. Plus itās just pleasant overall!
Exactly! And I fully understand your arguments / game playerās point of view. What Iām trying to say (and while still referencing the tittle of this topics) is that difference between SMOOTH and STABLE 30 and 60 FPS donāt needlessly ruin my sim experience. Thatās what I really stand for.
LOL yes i agreeā¦this is when i recognized how āin the weedsā i was getting lol
I long for the day when this sim is stable enough so I can turn off the fps displayā¦
The peak FPS does not matter, but the 99th percentile does matter.
As long as your frame rate is steady at an acceptable value the overall impression is fluid.
I also turned off the FPS counter, because the above is true on my PC for anything but the most busy urban centers and mega airports.
Yes, and it can for any game. Thatās why I donāt use an FPS counter for anything I play. The number is utterly irrevelant. Iām not in an FPS contest, Iām playing a game. If Iām getting framerate spikes and drops, Iāll see that in stuttering. If Iām getting low FPS, that will also be obvious as well. It shouldnāt matter if itās 30, 40, or 50 FPS, it should be able having a smooth, consistent experience. Iād urge everyone who FPS counts to seriously consider just turning the darn thing off and fly. Performance issues will be obvious. Stop obsessing over an ultimately meaningless number.
Thatās because 1. Smoothness =/= peak FPS. Smoothness = consistent FPS. Whether youāre getting 30, 40, 50, or 60 FPS, if itās consistent without spikes and sudden drops, it will appear smooth. And 2, certain types of games have more perceived benefit from higher FPS than others. A fast moving up close action game will feel more sluggish than a flight simulator will at 30 FPS when youāre flying at 10,000 feet any everything moving is really far away so it doesnāt move all that quickly. Much easier for your brain to see that as smooth movement. First person shooter games can really suck at 30FPS because it can mess with the quick reactions you need and the camera moves very, very quickly in often wide arcs which will accentuate a lower FPS and reward a higher one. Thatās why for ages people playing Flight sims have not really aimed for 60FPS as a standard as much as 30FPS, because 30 was more acceptable in this type of title than in others.