Can we talk about World Update airports?

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Let’s talk a bit about World Update airports. I really appreciate the world updates and the fact that we get content for free, but there has been something bothering me a bit.

It’s great that Asobo/Microsoft is hiring a veteran developer like Gaya for the airports, and they’re certainly better than the “handcrafted” ones provided with the initial release of the sim (those are quite hit and miss, and some still have bugs like bridges you fall through), but IMHO, the quality isn’t what one would expect from Gaya.

Some sticking points are the use of default jetways (which really look pretty bad and we get to see from very close), ground textures that show partially deleted aircraft silhouettes, and in the last batch, no taxiways are correctly labeled in code, so ATC doesn’t provide any guidance to and from the ramp.

The overall quality, as mentioned, isn’t bad, but respectfully, it’s not great. I’d give them 2.5/3 stars out of 5 tops on my usual airport review scale.

I do understand that Microsoft doesn’t want to stomp too much on the feet of third-party developers, but if the idea is to try to avoid their releases (as mentioned by Jorg yesterday), then there’s no need to hold the quality back.

Besides, it doesn’t make THAT much sense to offer an airport for free, if one who wants an actually good airport has to then buy it anyway.

Personally, I hope Microsoft will let Gaya go all out for future airports, including custom jetways and all the bells and whistles. If third party devs want to release the same airports, well, they’ll just have to do better :smiley: If not, there are a gazillion airports available to make. There’s room for everyone without delivering things that are a bit sub-par, which IMHO is a pity.

Again, this isn’t a knock on Gaya. I’m a big fan of their scenery. They do great work and I’m positive that they agree with a level of quality with Microsoft and then stick to it. I just wish that that agreement was “do the best you can do” instead of what it feels like "do something pretty nice but steer clear of payware territory.":hugs:

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While I somewhat agree (more a wish of everything to be as good as it can be), we also have to keep in mind these airports are provided for free. If they let Gaya go ‘all out’ as you put it, would probably result in the airports having to cost the same as payware airports.
I think they struck a pretty good medium here. Rotterdam airport is amazing (especially for a free airport). I don’t have a single complaint about it.

Just landed there, here’s a shot of me taxiing past Waalhaven, I’ve had coffee and spotted planes from that balcony. it’s spot on (the prison in the background is correctly modeled as well).

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FlightSimulator_xvyoX3wM0K2560×1440 414 KB

They’ve also correctly modeled the buildings in the business park close to the airport (even the company logos are correct).

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FlightSimulator_ysql34jmrY2560×1440 500 KB

I have zero complaints about this airport. No jetbridges here, so can’t comment on those :slight_smile:

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Umh, yes and no. There’s a large difference between a third party that is selling a product and a first-party hiring a third-party to produce content to push a product.

Payware airports cost what they cost because third-parties have to keep in mind a lot of liabilities to keep their relatively small businesses going. Microsoft is definitely a different case.

World Updates certainly have a costs to produce, and I honestly doubt that overall cost will be comparatively much higher if they allowed Gaya to put all the quality they’re capable of into the airports.

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Sure it would be higher. It’s basically man-hours (or woman-hours), and those aren’t free. I’m pretty sure they have to work within a given budget.

To add; I think it’s pretty amazing MS/Asobo provide these world updates for free in the first place. I feel it’s odd to keep asking for more.

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It isn’t a matter of asking for more or for less. It’s a matter of asking for a quality product.

Microsoft decided to offer it for free, and that’s great of them. Of course, they have made a calculated investment to receive returns in other forms (no company truly does things for free).

This doesn’t mean that quality shouldn’t be an issue when they explicitly aim to deliver the best simulation experience, and textures like the ones below (with an aircraft silhouette badly cleaned up from the aerials) aren’t my idea of quality. I’m sure the folks at Gaya agree, considering that you won’t see them in their own products.

Screenshot - 4_14_2021 , 7_57_29 PM
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3rd party devs need months up to a year for a close to reality airport. If gaya would go all in we would not get them free and would have to wait a year till the next world update to get 2-3 airports done… what you expect is payware quality for free, that doesnt work.

Gaya has its own roadmap and believe it or not, they ask for money for their work.

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Believe it or not, Gaya is receiving money for their work. Do you seriously think just because the end-user doesn’t directly pay for the airport Gaya isn’t being paid for it?

Nothing is truly for free. While world updates are a great way to promote the sim to new audiences on a regular basis, they’re simply an investment that brings another form of return. Microsoft isn’t doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

Saying that “f gaya would go all in we would not get them free” is a giant assumption, and not a very good one. Microsoft paid billions to acquire Bethesda. I’m quite sure their pockets are deep enough to invest a bit more into asking for custom jetways and properly cleaned ground textures.

Whether the end-user receives something for free or not, does not mean that that something doesn’t bring a return, so I’m not sure why we should settle for lacking quality.

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Its mostly about time, and not money. You cant do 3 gaya-all-in-quality airports in such a timeframe… and time costs money. If MS would be interested in that quality work they would aquire Gaya…

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It’s common knowledge that Gaya has staffed up to prepare for this kind of work. You’re making giant assumptions on what they can do based on… literally nothing?

You don’t know what their workforce is, you don’t know what their pipeline is like, and you don’t know what they’re being paid for this. So I’m not sure what you’re basing your assumptions on.

Aerosoft provided Padeborn for free, and that’s most definitely closer to payware quality. Why did they do that? It’s promotional. They’re receiving a return on their investment in another form.

It’s the same for the world updates. We may not paying for them directly, but we’re still providing a return in several forms. So there’s nothing wrong in asking for quality.

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Dude… check gayas roadmap, they have lots of stuff to do. However, im out here, this doesn’t lead to anything. It is how it is…
If you want higher quality, spend some money.

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Custom jetways are probably something a bit more time consuming, considering it’s 3D artwork.

Cleaning up aircraft silhouettes can improve over time, they probably have a process for doing so they can modify.

Not labelling taxiways I wonder about, is that really time consuming for them?

My suggestion is to pass on the issues to them, they can look at what they can improve in the future.

Working on a deadline for an announced update is pretty different from being able to take as long as they want, they had to make cuts, but they will certainly look at ways to be more efficient in the future.

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I know Gaya’s roadmap very well. That doesn’t justify your assumptions in any way. “It is how it is” never leads to improvement.

I do. Plenty actually. That doesn’t mean I won’t point out lacking quality when I see it. The way the product is paid for (and it is, just in different ways. Again, nothing is truly free) is irrelevant.

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Your asking for higher quality for something you got for free. Are you doing the same on your birthday gifts?

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What a false equivalence. :joy:

A free DLC for a game is not a gift. It’s a promotional initiative designed to bring a return on investment.

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But you feel that this promotional gift should exactly fit your quality expectations?

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I receive enough press releases every day not to fall for this kind of misleading wording choice.

This is not a gift. No one gifts anything in this industry. Free DLC are always provided with the design of receiving something in return, and they’re never truly free.

We can appreciate them without forgetting what they truly are, which is a promotional initiative.

The only ones who would unironically try to make a free DLC sound like a gift is PR. :joy:

You do know that some free to play games are among those that make the most money, don’t you?

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Performance needs to be sorted too, especially at Nice, so many stutters. Rotterdam was good for FPS but Nice had many stutters (For me anyway). there is also a massive bump on the runway at Nice airport, I feel like they rushed this too much, how could that bump not be noticed?

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Mmmh… which runway? I just did a few landings on 4L and 4R and didn’t feel a bump.

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Runway 4L, at the start close to touchdown zone, it’s not just me many others have the same problem on the forums.

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runway 4R idem