When climbing in the PA34 I noticed that after 6000ft or so in AP the nose drops until the kias gets to about 130and then it resumes climb untill it happens again. The thing tis the climb speed of the aircraft is approx 83-88 kts but when the needle hits 85kts or so thats when the aircraft pitches down. Has anyone had this issue? tnx in adv/
Wrong forum area for this question. Carenado is third party. Carenado most likely reads posts about their a/c but probably not see this unless it’s in the third party threads. You could ask them on their website also.
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I agree that the climb characteristics are not right. I just can’t get the Seneca to climb on one engine, even with the failed prop feathered, raising the dead engine, cowl flaps, gear etc.
Checking the POH the aircraft should climb at 350 ft/min at 1999kg with OAT of 20C at sea-level.
Just happened to me last night. Did not happen prior to SU 4.
Then got a VCRuntime error. First time that’s happened in the Seneca.
Probably the most important part of SE operation is making sure the mixture is set for best performance, not best economy. To achieve the POH numbers in a Seneca you will need every horse you can find. I will tell you that even a bit of dirt on the belly will kill that 350fpm.
Sim wise, they still don’t have the prop drag and feathering worked out yet so that will end your climb right there.
@D9ERYANKEE Make sure you are trimming the mixture as you climb and have the prop set for climb. I love the Seneca, but it is an underpowered pig. 
(I can say that, because I used to own a V and now she’s my ex) You didn’t mention what AP mode you are using in the climb. If in VS you should just notice airspeed bleeding off, but if in FLC mode then the aircraft will be more concerned with maintaining airspeed than climb rate.
You make very good points, however I tried everything I could in the sim - closing the cowl flaps on the dead engine and half open on the functional one didn’t help.
I saw a streamer drop a stage of flap at Vyse and arrest the descent, but that’s just plain wrong.
This demonstrates the problem very well.
Cowl Flaps will have little effect if any. Their only purpose is to facilitate cooling when on the ground or in steep climbs where the airflow is not directly into the nacelle. The amount of drag induced is minimal. Mixture, my friend, that is your key here. Must be just slightly rich of peak EGT, max MP and full fine on the prop. Raising the dead engine is not nearly as big a deal as rudder trimmed so that there is NO slip or skid then ailerons to hold heading. ANY maneuvering will kill the climb rate. The Seneca is the same as the Baron, (my new wife). MUST go land. Maintaining altitude is not a big deal but any altitude change needs to to get DOWN.
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Actually guys I think the cowl flaps does have a lot to do with it. Its one of the things I hardly ever paid attn to and I notice after closing the cowl flaps I was able to climb uninterrupted
If that is the case, the drag coefficient is severely over modeled.
I watched the video and noted that he never got the rudder trimmed. If not co-ordinated in SE you don’t have a hope. The moment that engine goes, you MUST stand on that rudder to straighten out the aircraft. Failure to do so will get you killed if the engine fails on take off. Especially if the airspeed is allowed to drop.
Since SU 4 it seems the Seneca will climb at nominal power settings - 32" @ 2550 in my case with due attention to mixture - while the airspeed continues to fall until AP disengages, then descends to pick up speed to about 125 - 130 KIAS. At that point you can climb “as normal” and re-engage the AP. This happens between 5,000 and 6,000 feet. (I thought I had double tapped the gear button, and it was still down!)
This behavior was not present prior to SU 4. I could climb at 1200 fpm pretty easily through 5,000 feet then drop back to 800 fpm for the balance of the climb to “oxygen required” altitudes.
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well i closed the cowl flaps at about 4000 and was able to climb smoothly till about 16000ft after that i had to climb at 500fpm
I agree that in the video he was mostly in uncoordinated flight, but having said that the aim should be to “split the ball” rather than center it.
Whatever about the finer details of technique, can anyone please confirm that they can actually climb at all with single engine EFATO in this aircraft?
Quite simply, if trimmed properly and power management is done correctly, 250 fpm should be achievable at around 100 knots, below 6000ft density alt. Above that anything between 150 - 200 fpm is pretty good. The turbo V should be able to sustain a near 100 fpm climb to about 18000 ft.
I gave it a go last night on my son’s system, (I have yet to add ANY addons in mine) Performance was pretty close to what I remember but was barely able to maintain 150 fpm at 100 kts from a 2300 ft. field. I could cheat and push close to 90 kts to get the expected climb performance. I did notice that even with full throttle on the good engine, I was able to maintain directional control down to 80 kts. before things got dicey. Obviously, never attempted that in the real thing, but that just doesn’t feel right.
So tried a failure at 8000 to give me lots of recovery room and was able to maintain directional control down to 70 kts before stall buffet and wing drop. Quickly pulling the power off and simply releasing rudder input allowed a straight ahead stall recovery. Should have been a pretty abrupt spin entry. After recovery, I was barely able to maintain 7000 ft straight and level at 105 kts.
In conclusion, SE performance on the Carenado is close but the performance is lacking slightly. If you fly by the numbers, then you will be able to sustain a climb below about 6000 - 7000 feet but you are not going to see an 18000 foot SE ceiling. An engine failure on take-off should be survivable if the procedures are followed with NO hesitation. Any delay in getting cleaned up and trimmed out will have you in the dirt. That said, low and slow is way too forgiving and after a failure at 500ft on takeoff, I was able to cheat my way around the circuit and land safely. Stall/spin characteristics are far too benign.
In case you don’t have the checklist… My 220CL is PDF so can’t attach it but I found a 200. The procedures haven’t changed.
FYI
My son just got his PPL about two years ago and has about 200 hrs on 172. He has handled the controls on both my old Seneca and the new Baron but I would not say he has been “checked out”. He has not done any practical twin training.
He tried duplicating my tests as we went through them last night and crashed 3 airplanes before managing to safely land from altitude, SE. He was NOT able to safely maintain any significant climb without dropping below 90 knots.
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In a turbocharged aircraft, it should not be necessary to reduce mixture during the climb, should it? The Seneca V POH calls for full rich mixture until cruise. I’ve now flown a few turbocharged add-ons in the sim, and all of them exhibit a loss of engine power (and fuel flow) with altitude, which seems unrealistic. I’ve created a bug report for this:
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