CAT 3 Landing goes Awry…

I was testing the latest A32NX Development version, which features AUTOLAND.

Coming into Nice - Côte d’Azur- for a CAT 3 landing, it was obvious that the runways were not aligned with the ILS.

Since the airport is part of the upgraded WU3 scenery, with the French airports getting special treatment, I wonder what caused this mis-alignment. Is it Asobo or MSFS 2020 or BING data that is wrong or something else.

Check the video below starting at 13 minutes.

I don’t know what’s wrong here. I landed in Nice several times. Everything is good there with the ILS.

What I recognize is, that your thrust lever is not in CLB position. Hence your autothrust is not working. Your MCDU is not programmed for landing. Your spoilers are not armed and you are way to fast on landing.

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Are you sure that both ILS 04L and 04R are misaligned? 04L should be ok.

If you check the approach charts you will see that there’s no way IRL to perform an autoland on 04R because the LOC is offset by 2°!

The location of the LOC antenna in MSFS is correct, but as in numerous other cases (e.g. LOWI) the inbound course offset is missing.

Btw, IRL 04R isn’t used for landings anymore.
That’s the reason why you don’t see any approach lights.

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Yeah but beside that the LOC and G/S are centered, so AP follows it correctly but as said it’s not aligned…bc he does not end up on the runway.

That’s because Asobo failed to include the inbound course offset on numerous airports like LFMN 04R.

IRL you would cross the threshold at 50ft at a 2° angle .

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It’s not an issue, it’s as intended, because ils can not be placed in water…

Also LFMN is not approved for CAT3 / autoland

In real life 04R is used for departure and 04L for landing

On the charts of the SIA (Service d’information aéronautique), the French aeronautical information provider you have the note RWY axis offset 1.9°

On jeppesen charts axis offset is 2°

https://www.fly-sea.com/charts/LFMN.pdf

Page 2 :wink:

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I don’t think that LOC antenna position has been chosen for that reason.
AFAIR this was just to keep a greater distance from Pointe Croisette.
A lot of procedures at Nice have been changed and introduced over the years just to avoid overflying expensive private properties.

When I used to fly to Nice, a visual approach 04R was the most common approach.

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And from the Cap d’Antibes.

The most common approaches are RNAV, with effectively a final on visual.
The ILS approach represent 25% of the approaches at LFMN.
But with msfs you can do it your own way :wink:

Back in my time our airliners didn’t have RNAV, not even GPS or FMC, just VOR/ILS and ADF.

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Thanks for all the comments. Very valuable to me just learning to handle real life procedures.

Since I set out to test a CAT 3 landing in the A32NX, I am flying a PANC to PAFA flight, landing in RWY 20L.

This time, the test was successful. Here is the video - check the landing starting around 53 minutes.

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I have a few questions and a few notes after watching your latest video:

  1. Why do you keep your airspeed at Selected mode? Approaching at 168 knots is way too fast when you look at the approach speed for the Full flaps configuration. Sure it’s not overspeeding, but it’s still too fast. Generally, I usually approach at 120 knots. But my question is why do you keep it at Selected Airspeed mode? Just keep it at managed airspeed mode and let the A/THR manage your speed.

  2. You’re putting your engine under a lot of stress by keeping it at TOGA Mode for a long time, when you pull it back at 36:08 why do you pull it that far back to 50%? See that LVR CLB text in your FMA? That’s the aircraft telling you that thrust lever is not at the correct detent and it should be in the CLB detent.

  3. When you land, you have blue messages appearing in your Upper ECAM. That’s telling you you haven’t completed that checklist. Cabin Check can be resolved by pressing the ALL Call button on the overhead panel. And your Spoilers are not in armed position, which will prevent the spoilers from deploying.

Here’s how I do my full flight with autoland. My approach starts at 4:45:45

This can be too slow and too fast since Vref varies between ~111kts and ~147kts.

btw. this might answer your question: CRJ 550/700 I put them aside! - #107 by Kaptajnen1583

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I’m asking myself then, why fly that kind of sophisticated aircraft like the A32NX or the CRJ, the default A320 would do a much better job here.

Thank you very much for taking the time to help me learn to fly the A32NX.

I watched your video, both the prep before flight and take off…and the CAT3 landing in Nagasaki.

On your final approach, it seems that the aircraft is doing a lot of maneuvering to line up…is that the flight plan from Simbrief? I usually click on the destination airport in the MDCU and accept the ILS it shows me.

I will fly the route again using your recommendations.

Again, thanks for helping.

Nah, I don’t use SimBrief. I use the world map flight planning tool. That was the STAR given from the Navigraph Update (which should be the same since the AIRAC is exactly the same as SimBrief).

That maneuvering in the end to get myself line up. That was because I’m still too high to intercept on the glideslope. You’ll notice this at 4:43:40 that the glideslope diamond is still below me. So I intercept it to Selected Heading mode, bring myself to 180 degrees away from the runway heading, giving myself some distance while I keep descending, and once the diamond goes up at 4:45:02 and crosses the center, I re-engage the managed NAV mode to bring the aircraft to face the runway again and then I engage the APPR button to lock onto the LOC signal and the G/S.

It’s just one of those days where I’m too high to intercept and had to make a correction by giving myself more distance rather than diving at a steep angle on a high V/S trying to play catch up.

That’s what I did at 4:19:50 mark. I assign the approach runway at MCDU, and it accepts the ILS frequency. I just have to double check to make sure the frequency is correct. It usually works. But at this time the ILS is still tuned in to the ILS frequency of my departure runway (because I want the RWY FMA to display on Take off) so I had to re-enter the correct frequency for Nagasaki again even after selecting the runway in the FPLAN Arrival. I just got so used to it, that whenever I select and arrival. I always check and double check, then triple check it that the ILS frequency is tuned in correctly. If it’s incorrect, I just correct it.

That’s why it’s always a good idea to use the quick and basic distance x 3 = altitude calculation during the descent every 5 or 10NM. :slight_smile:

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Roger that.

And here is my latest test flight, which I think is somewhat better.

Please comment on the approach (or anything else)….

Takeoff:
Rotation speed is too high, technically you’re not supposed to speed above 250kts below 10000ft, CL detent at 1500AGL as advised by the PFD
Cruize:
Why are your landing light on? You have to disarm spoilers as part of the after take-off flow
Approach:
I would suggest you use VS mode on your final descent to sort of align with the 3deg glide slope (or 2 in this case?) a little smoother.
Maybe keep the speed up a little longer you’re at 160kts well before your FAF. And when you activate the APP phase in your MCDU have the plane manage the speed so you don’t need to worry about speeds at the various flaps stages.
When you intercepted the LOC and forward you consistently stayed well below the GS. Let the plane do it for you in managed ALT mode and (for immersion maybe, I like it a little realistic) tune in your GA altitude. Gears down too early, maybe about 2000ft AGL or 10nm final.

You seem to wonder why you have a master warning at the end, I suppose you push your THR levers too far when breaking away and the plane thought you wanted to take off unconfigured. And your brakes are overheated, use the brake fan.

APU and parking brake before engine shut off.

A little smarty-pants-ish, but you wanted to know :wink:

You could watch the YouTubes from 320 Sim Pilot. He does a very good job explaining how the aircraft functions so you can avoid the mistakes and learn quicker.

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I know.. I’m just too lazy to do the calculation. Hahahahaha. :sweat_smile: I put my faith in the in-game ATC, however stupid their instructions and timings are.

I guess the easiest one without doing the calculation is to use the EFB FlyPad Performance page, where you can just enter your target altitude which is the airport elevation altitude. Keep it at 3 degrees descent angle, and it’ll tell you how many nm that we should start the descent, then check on the FPLN Distance to the destination and once it’s reached, hit the 3 degree FPA descent mode, and that should do it.

But again, I’m just too lazy to do all that and just pick whichever altitude my ATC gave me and do a LVL/CH. Hahahah