Cessna 152 - landing runway orientation question

I have a question with the Cessna 152 flying

I can take off and fly ok - no problems

I use velocity joystick and trim works fine

The problem is landing at your destination runway

I find always that the landing runway is never in front of you - directly underneath

It is always sideways on - from where you are flying. On approach to the landing runway, I have to swing out right for a distance clockwise then anticlockwise - to try to get the runway below you - by which time I am quite often too high - and have to rapidly lose altitude to try and land

For example, I fly from Bristol to Southampton - and on approach to Southampton airport - the runway is sideways on

The question is - when arriving at a destination airport on the Cessna 152 - how do I ensure that the runway is directly in front and below me - and not sideways on view - to make it easy to land ?

Thanks

This is the purpose of flying the pattern at airports, and there are some specific ways to enter the pattern depending on how you are approaching the airport.

Try some searches that explain pattern flying and entering the pattern, and these will get you set up for landing.

1 Like

Not sure how to do this

I pick two places in the UK on the world map

For example fly from Birmingham to Manchester

As I say take off and flying at altitude is fine

I fly towards the horizon indicator showing Manchester

The problem is on approach to Manchester airport

I know how to land - reduce speed and flaps from 0 to 30

But I can never get the destination runway below me to land easily

Say I am 10km outside Manchester airport - how do I know which direction to travel - clockwise or anti-clockwise etc - with gradual turns - to eventually get the runway to land at below me ?

Wher can I find this information

As I said, you need to learn how to fly a traffic pattern.

Here’s one reference I found with a quick search that explains the basics. There are probably better tutorials out there.

Thanks - that diagram explains my problem

If you go just above ‘45 degree entry’ on this diagram - that is where my Cessna 152 is on approach to the landing runway

The landing runway has a sideways view - so as I can see from the diagram - I have to go straight ahead for a short bit - then turn right for a distance - then turn left and left again - and descend to land

This diagram does clearly show how I should approach the runway to land - the hard part is the execution of it on flight sim

I guess with practice things should get easier with time - hopefully

Over two years for me and I still don’t know what I’m doing :rofl:

Did you have the same problem as me when trying to land when playing early on ?

Very much so! The thing that made it hard for me is having a static 2D view and trying to know where I was in 3D space. The various camera views were never really good enough for me to orient myself, and in this one respect, I think real life flying is probably easier than 2D flying because you have a much better feel of “where” you are.

I tried VR for a little while, and the single best thing about VR was how much easier it was for me to look over my shoulder, or off to the side, and have the view change with me. I could, in real time, look around and know where I was. This made flying patterns and landing in general much much easier.

I stopped playing in VR, but now I’m trying out the Tobii Eye Tracker and am finding being able to look around much more easily really helps flying patterns and landing.

If you are flying in 2D, you just need to practice and get a feel for how long you should be flying your segments and when to start turns. Keep your eyes on your heading, too, so you know you are flying parallel or perpendicular to your landing runway. Have the heading numbers for downwind and crosswind in your memory, and that may help as you are flying.

The sim has fkying lessons which will teach you how to fly the pattern. Just try them and repeat as often as you want until you’re comfortable with it.

Hi,

I understand how confusing it can be when starting out.

Might I suggest a little preflight planning?

If you select your landing field, you can see what runways they have. In case you didn’t know, runways are labelled by their heading to the nearest ten degrees. So, Runway 13 is about 130 degrees, roughly southeast. And it’s opposite will be Runway 31, about 310 degrees, roughly northwest.

When you are flying your route, if it says, again for example, 040 degrees to your destination and your destination runway is, say, 13/31, then you are going to hit the runway crosswise. If your course was 130 or 310, then you would find it looking longways as you approach.

In order to get around all these opposing courses, it’s useful to know that in order to figure the reciprocal of any heading, try adding 2 to the first numeral and subtracting two from the second. If that gives you a number that isn’t between 0 and 360, do the opposite.

Thus 310. Add 2 to the first number, 3. That would be 5, which doesn’t make sense. So subtract 2 instead. 3-2=1. Since you subtracted 2 from the first number, you add 2 to the second, 1. 1+2=3.

Combine the two and you get 1 for the first digit and 3 for the second. 13. The last number always stays the same. In this case 0.

So, 130. If you want to cheat, look at your heading indicator or OBS. You can see the opposite course on the opposite side of the indicator.

Of course, this doesn’t take wind into account, as you will always want to land as close to into the wind as possible, but it will give you an expectation of where you are in relation to the runway before you get there.

Since 90% of flying is knowing what you are going to say before you say it or knowing what you will see before you see it, this will help you plan for your arrival maneuvering before you get there.

Then, you just need to apply the pattern procedures provided above and you can maneuver to line up with the runway.

Hope some of that helps!

Thanks for your reply

It all sounds very complicated to me

I think it’s best if you can provide an example where I can fly from one place to another - and practice this - to see what you mean

Short distance between 2 cities

Starting city and runway number
Destination city and runway number

I select these 2 points on the world map before flying

I prefer 2 places in the UK if possible - but anywhere in the world should be ok to demonstrate this theory

The only thing is I should fly from start to destination in one go - and not take too long ( several hours )

Flying time on Cessna 152 of about 45 mins should be fine

Many thanks for your help

Hi, here’s a good video for you. Hope this will help you

Thanks for the video

Great series, will teach you heaps.

He teaches traffic patterns as one of the lessons.

Ok, here’s a very simple example. This is mostly a situational awareness lesson, so don’t take anything else I do as being the aviation bible truth.

To start, I don’t know how comfortable you are with compass directions, so I’m just going to throw this up here.

Notice that all of those directions have the reciprocal listed above it. The “Add 2, subtract 2” or “Subtract 2, add 2” rule of thumb works pretty well but requires a little figuring in a few cases. So as always, sanity check your work. If it doesn’t make sense, it’s probably not right.

We’re going to start from EGLJ. Notice that when you zoom in, the runway layout appears. The sim automatically picked Runway 24 for us(heading 240, or roughly southwest). You can see the winds are 270 degrees @ 4kts. So, this is a good runway which will allow us to take off into the wind.

[Remember, the winds blow, they don’t suck. So, 270 degrees is where the wind is coming from, not going to. :wink:]

Our destination is going to be EGTN. The winds are the same there, so the sim has picked Runway 26. Note the blue course line coming in from the southeast. You can already tell that we are going to be intercepting the runway at roughly a right angle.

We can begin planning our field entry right now. We’re going to choose a 45 degree intercept to a left hand pattern. It called a left hand pattern because all turns once established within it are to the left. It’s a nice, predictable entry that allows everyone to see us coming and hopefully allows us to see other traffic in the pattern, if there is any.

This pattern will keep us on the south side of the field. In other words the near side as we look at it.

Since we aren’t quite coming in organically for the 45, our plan is to cut a little to the left until we can turn back right for the 45 entry properly.

Here we are on Runway 24. I’ve pulled up the map and the Nav Log. Note the course to EGTN is 320 (Northwest). We are heading 240 (Southwest). So we know that we’re going to need to make about a 90 degree right turn on climb out.

I’m being very generic in my general directions. You will of course attempt to fly precisely, but in the big scheme of things, we are just trying to get a big picture of what we are trying to do.

Also, here is a close up of the Directional Gyro. Note that you can easily pick out the reciprocal heading by looking at the bottom of the indicator, 060. Again, 240. 2-2=0. 4+2=6. So, 060.

Fast forward to the arrival. As expected, when we pick up the runway it is at a little over 90 degrees to us. Knowing this in advance not only helped plan our arrival, it also helps us not land on the wrong runway!

Pattern entry. If you look at the Nav Map, note that we have allowed ourselves to drift left of course (roughly towards the west) so that now we can turn back right and intercept the pattern on what will eventually be an at least approximate 45 degree angle, if a little past midfield.

After judging our distance from the runway, we turn right once again onto downwind. And again, we’re looking for the reciprocal of our landing runway heading (Runway 26, so 260, minus 2, plus 2, 080). Also, note that 080 is at the top of the DG and the reciprocal, 260, is at the bottom.

We’re also going to note that 90 degrees to the left, which is the way that we’re going to be turning onto base, shows a heading of 350. Now we don’t need to figure it out later.

The view out the window. A little bit wide, if I remember my Cessna(ing).

Here’s that left turn to 350 degrees onto base.

And final, heading 260.

So that’s it in very broad strokes. It’s not in any way ALL the things you should look at when planning a flight. But it gives you some general idea on how you can big picture it beforehand.

Hope this helps a bit. :smiley:

8 Likes

That’s some nice community help. :+1:

3 Likes

Thanks everyone for your help

Hi, if you want to do it by the book the best advice is to follow the explanation of Decon8tor.
It is excellent. And then practice, practice, practice
 :slight_smile:
It will take a while to get the hang of it and I could understand if you (just for starters) want a bit of satisfaction by a quick success.
And that is easy.
Look at Decon8tor’s second image, I’ve copied it here (hope he doesn’t mind):


See the little red circle I’ve put there? When you have entered your flightplan with start and destination move your mouse pointer to that place and click. A menu will appear from which you should choose „add to flightplan”. Your plan will now have an additional waypoint.

Take off, follow your flightplan and shortly before reaching that point configure your plane for approach (slow down, set first stage of flaps for instance). Then make the turn towards the airport and you will be perfectly lined up with the runway right in front of you.

That is of course only a „quick and dirty” solution but it will work. Just make sure you set that waypoint far enough from the runway (2-3 nm).

Hope that helps,
best regards, Frank

1 Like

A very helpful post by Deacon8tor indeed.

I was thinking that the most important lesson for Vexed might have been that there are times when you must deviate from the blue line!

After all, we don’t want the simulator teaching us to be “children of the magenta” :wink:
For those who aren’t familiar, you can google it and watch some very interesting airline pilot training seminars taught by Capt. Warren VanderBurgh.

2 Likes

Hi, thanks for mentioning that video series. Very intersting indeed, and entertaining too, as that captain for sure has a good sense of humour.

Regards, Frank