I am facing an issue with the Cessna 172 G1000, where the aircraft is constantly rolling to the right. Looking at the forum this problem seems to be at least not completely uncommon, but unfortunately I was not able find any clear conclusion, e.g. its a bug or it is a user-issue and can be fixed.
How it looks like:
In the air the plane constantly rolls to the right. And this not just a little bit, but at least one degree per second, such that I make a full circle in no-time without correcting.
It only appears with the C172 (not the C152 and also not the C208) and I am using the Thrustmaster T.16000.
I already tested the following things (with no success):
recalibrated my Thrustmaster (and validated while I was rolling to the right that the joystick is dead in the middle)
re-installed MSFS completely
tested starting in the air and on the ground
tested without any weather at all (to rule out wind)
In terms of configuration:
tested with specific setttings and without (sensitivity) → deadzone does not fix the issue
auto-rudder on
fuel balance is not the root cause, neither is the general distribution of weight in the plane (at least what I can read from the in-game information)
I understand that some rolling is to be expected in these aircraft, but then rather to the left and not the right. Also I only started flying recently, so if anyone of you can point out maybe a stupid mistake I made I would be glad.
Well, i remember in the changelog there was mention of the rudder being positioned 1 degrees to the right for better straight level flight… So i’m guessing that’s what you are experiencing… i never had an issue with the 172, as long as i moved my controls to all the corners before actually getting off the ground… but that’s my 2cts
If it was really pre-set trim then it’s even more likely it’s auto-rudder. This happened with the Flying Iron Spitfire when it was updated to the new prop physics, it was constantly rolling right for some people and quite heavily. Turned out that the developers had pre-set it with some right aileron trim (which is essentially accurate). For most people it would mean that the plane’s tendency to roll to left was being cancelled. However the auto-rudder did not understand it, it automatically corrected for the torque roll to left (which on Spitfire is ridiculous compared to Cessnas) and then the pre-set aileron trim caused it to always roll right for people who used the function.
Workaround would be to center the trim with keybindings, if it’s rudder trim then try using the reset rudder trim function which should default it to zero.
First of all thanks for the quick feedback! I thought I tested turning off auto rudder already, but this was seemingly not the case. Shame on me.
Because turning it off actually fixed the issue! The specific change for just the C172 then might also explain why I did not experience similar issues with the C208 or C152. Interestingly enough the issue also did not come back after I switched auto rudder on again, which is kind of weird.
Without auto rudder on I then only need to find a workaround as my current setup has no pedals. But I guess time and some more testing will tell whats the best solution here. Thank you so much for the help! I was already getting crazy…
Just one more question regarding auto-rudder: To my understanding this option would overwrite any input for the rudder trim. So using a key-binding to set the rudder trim would not really work as long as the auto rudder option is on, correct?
I use the twist axis of the joystick for rudder, doing it this way I find I can still trim the rudder in the air if I need to. Of course you could alway cheat, fly up to where you want to be, turn on the autopilot with alt heading and speed, then once you achieve that the plane will be trimmed and you can switch back to manual. But thats cheating Bwhhahaha!
At least in the Spitfire case that I tested, the problem was that the auto-rudder was specifically not accounting for the trim setting at all. The auto-rudder automatically corrected for left turning tendency as if the trim didn’t exist, and then the trim (which was set right, to correct for left turning tendency of the plane) became a constant control input. Hence double compensation: both the auto-rudder and the trim were trying to correct for a left-turning tendency at the same time. Centering the aileron trim caused it to fly properly without right roll.
If your case is similar (it sounds as if it is) you should be able to use the auto-rudder, but you need to center the trim.
Does the autopilot actually change the trim on aircraft like C172 that don’t have flight adjustable trim (rudder and aileron in this case)? That would be odd.
I did some more testing:
-setting auto-rudder off fixes the bias towards the right (as already mentioned)
-turning the rudder once from left to right before take-off does not fix the issue (with auto rudder on)
-resetting the trim to center does not fix the issue (with auto rudder on)
-“toggle ruder trim” (not quite sure what this is supposed to do) also has no impact (with auto rudder on)
So it seems that “overwritting” the auto rudder bias with “reset rudder trim” does not work unfortunately. When turning auto rudder off I have the expected tendency to the left, which I need to counter with slight rudder to the right. I also tested a little bit with different RPM, but the tendency to the right or left is not too much impacted by this.
Overall it seems like there is not real solution with auto rudder on and the only option is having a reliable option for manual managing the rudder.
Though to be clear I’m pretty sure this qualifies as a bug, or at very least a bug-like omission. The auto-rudder function can’t be intended to work like this.
But you are right, the rudder trim does nothing I checked it too. Reason for this seems to be that it’s adjustment with keybindings is disabled for the aircraft, it does nothing regardless whether you have auto-rudder on or off even with the rudder trim left/right commands. They did leave the aileron trim on though so you could give it a bit of left aileron trim to cancel the roll. If the underlying cause is rudder trim that might not play out nicely in all situations though and there might be need to retrim occasionally. Using the autopilot might also mess with the aileron trim.
Another option would be to edit the plane’s files so as to enable the rudder trim or to make it default to neutral trim, but I’m not sure how you’d do it, maybe something in plane’s flight_model.cfg.
There is still an other option. I encounterd the same provlem. What I did was placing the aileron off-center for several degrees with the slider in the sensitivity settings menu. Problem solved.
If it was rudder trim you shouldnt be doing barrel rolls you would be crabbing. Find out what you have set for aileron trim, and then use those accordingly.
And the C172 has neither aileron trim (but also no rudder trim) so I am confused how this could even have an influence. Although (if I understand well) an artifical rudder-trim has been implemented. Thinking about this: Is there a debug mode where I can display the trim settings midflight?
Two issues I am facing:
a) I don’t have any input for airelon trim (no available sliders left on my Thrustmaster).
b) See point above, normally the C172 should not have aileron trim
I guess I could set the “neutral” sensitivity setting of my rudder (r-axis z for my joystick) to an offset to create an artifical rudder-trim?
I just flew it earlier today, and I had aileron trim on it. In fact rudder trim is the only trim that I dont have bound to anything. Personally my assist setting are all turned to HARD, I dont need the computer to fly the plane for me I already know how to do that. It even very rare (except of course when Im cheating) that I use the autopilot.
And you could try this as well. Fly to altitude and speed, now set the autopilot on and let it settle the plane still its straight and level. Now turn off the autopilot if it starts the rolling nonsense, then there is something else going on here.
I would try recalibrate the stick in windows devices to make sure its not just a bad calibration. Turn all assists off so the game wont be second guessing your actions.
Flight adjustable. There’s a control in cockpit you use to adjust trim to changing situation.
Ground adjustable. Like bendable trim tab. These are adjusted so that your aircraft flies somewhat straight at some specific condition, generally level flight at cruise power.
Beyond that even if there is no formal trim, various hacks have been used through the ages to trim an aircraft.
Beyond those considerations any aircraft in the game can mechanically have the trim enabled or not, regardless which type it has or doesn’t in real life. In case of this aircraft it has the elevator trim as it should, it has the aileron trim mechanically enabled in the game for some reason, and doesn’t have the rudder trim enabled for some other reason (though Cessna 172 should usually have ground adjustable rudder trim tab).
Even further beyond that, the whole problem you are facing is artificial one brought about by limitations in the game. Your aircraft shouldn’t be rolling to the right with the auto-rudder enabled. That it does is an error and this is about how to find a workaround to get it working approximately as it should.
You could put the trim on couple of keyboard keys? But sensitivity adjustment should also work yes.
I took the 172 for a post SU10 flight today and found it was also rolling gently to the right. New behaviour.
All settings to hard (I’ve never used auto ruddrr and have a full suite of peripherals. I usually fly the Kodiak sonused to doing a lot of trimming!)
Thanks for the explanation! Regarding the tip of binding it onto keys: I tried this, but failed getting it to work. Neither the standard binding on the keyboard works (see below)
On the C208 I do not see any visual change and the instruments in the cabin also do not move. On the C172 the same, although I would not know how to verify in the cockpit as it is simulated as you said. But this looks more like an error on my side I will try in the coming days to configure it properly.
A more general question: What is the normal way to counter the left-turning tendency of single propeller machines, rudder or aileron? As the plane rolls left my guess is aileron, but a lot of videos I found spoke about applying rudder (which seems to work as well).
