Cessna Citation Longitude Performance issues

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In the most recent developer Q&A twitch, Jorg Neumann said (see 20:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J5PiYtxfSU): “Please community, be a little more discreet in your exact thing you want us to look into…”

So, Asobo team, here’s a list of the most immediately pressing issues affecting the Cessna Citation Longitude:

  1. Please verify all the following specifications and correct if required:
    Empty weight of 23,389 lb (10,609 kg)
    Max takeoff weight of 39,500 lb (17,917 kg)
    Total fuel capacity of 14,511 lb (6,600 kg) (THIS IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE!! Currently at 5160 lb in the sim)
    Full fuel payload of 1,600 lb (726 kg)
    Engine thrust of 7,665 lbs. (34.10 kN) each
    Cruise speed of 483 KTAS
    Maximum Limit Speed 0.84M on speed tape
    Fuel consumption of approximately 1,600 to 1,800 PPH in cruise
    Maximum Ramp Weight 39,700 lb
    Maximum Landing Weight 33,500 lb
    Useful Load 16,100 lb
    Maximum Payload 2,400 lb
    Maximum Range 3,500 nm
    Field Takeoff Length 4,810 ft
    Landing Distance 3,170 ft

  2. Uncontrollable pitch oscillations/swinging/roll dance, (+/- 15 degrees) in all autopilot flight modes. (THIS IS ANOTHER MAJOR ISSUE)

  3. Excessive bouncing and pitch sensitivity, even when autopilot is not engaged

  4. “Landing Gear” continuous, repeated warning whenever throttle is at idle. “Landing Gear” warning should only play when flaps are fully extended and gear is up.

  5. Engine Start Switches: the start switches remain engaged after engine starts are completed. Starters should be disengaging automatically.

  6. Left Panel - Speed bug preference is not sync / effective as the Center Panel. (ON/OFF isn’t shared).

  7. Garmin Panel: Flight Plan, sometimes remove/add waypoint, and then click thru the other waypoints details will make whole FS2020 freeze and not respond.

  8. Autopilot with ILS Glide Slope: the descend is on “railtrack” with strange AOA +ve, which is not realistic, resulting in crazy upthrusting when AP disengaged at landing roll.

  9. Stall speeds are about 20 kt too fast. Aircraft should be able to leap off the ground on takeoff, not barely lumber into the air while stalling.

  10. Anti-Ice: the anti-ice system lights get stuck permanently on regardless of the state of the system. You have to use the tooltip to see if it’s on or off.

  11. ILS capture swings aircraft in opposite direction before capturing the localizer. It’s as if the intended intercept is 40 degrees from the localizer heading. Typical localizer intercept is 30 degrees from the localizer heading.

  12. Mach speed function not working at all. Mach/Knots selector always shows Knots.

  13. Checklist incomplete.

  14. FLC mode not working correctly. Aircraft pitches uncontrollably during ascent/ descent and continues to porpoise up and down.

  15. C of G off (Angle of Attack running right on the redline with a nose up of around 7.5 degrees in cruise at FL430) [side note - this may be contributing to fuel burn issue].

  16. During cruise, over speeding due to turbulence results in “Landing Gear” warning, not “Overspeed”

  17. No way with which to enter airways in FMC.

  18. During altitude hold mode, G5000 seems to use backup instruments barometer setting (changing G5000 barometer to STD has no effect on altitude hold - effect only seen when changing standby instruments).

  19. Map settings menu from center console does not give any options when clicked (unlike weather settings).

  20. VNAV function not working at all.

  21. Landing light / Taxi light not visible from Cockpit view.

  22. Chronometers on pilot/ co-pilot Garmin panels do not synchronize with the display on the pilot/ co-pilot PFDs. The PFDs displays remains at zero at all times.

  23. Auto Throttle functionality not properly emulated, per Cessna’s (Textron Aviation) advertising. Here is how autothrottles function in the real plane (thanks to UnbilledLand644, real-world pilot):
    Our SOP’s have us push the TOGA button before engine start to bring the flight directors up to the correct pitch. We also set either HDG or NAV mode depending on the departure procedure. The autothrottles are armed on the ground just prior to takeoff. You will see a white TO annunciation. The pilot then advances the throttle and around 40-50%, the autothrottle takes over and moves the throttles to takeoff power. If the autothrottle does not enter HOLD mode by 65 knots, you will receive a red AT FAIL CAS message (this usually happens if you bring the throttles up to slowly before the autothrottle moves them to takeoff power). The throttles will not move in HOLD mode until after 400’. Our SOP’s typically are engaging FLC after gear up.
    The throttles move throughout the flight to match the thrust level being used. If you move the throttles yourself any time the AT is engages, it will disengage.
    On approach, after full flap extension, you must switch from FMS speed to MAN speed. At 500’ AGL, you will set the manual speed to ref + 3 knots. At 50’, the autothrottle moves the throttles to idle and disengages

  24. Auto throttle “HOLD” light does not glow when the auto throttle is activated

  25. While other G5000 autothrottle installations do move the throttles to takeoff when advanced past a certain throttle position, Longitude’s doesn’t.

  26. Need to have autothrottle mode annunciations in FMA

  27. NAV frequency swap does not work. You need to press ctrl+shift+n to swap NAV1.

  28. The aircraft should have a single-point refuel valve on the body, close to the landing light cluster on the starboard side, by the wing. It does not exist on the current model.

  29. Battery amperages read negative values at all times during flight.

  30. The TOGA button does 5 things in the actual plane (thanks to PlumpDig, real-world pilot):
    a) Disconnects the auto pilot (but not the auto throttles)
    b) switches from “green” (short range) needles to magenta (long range)
    c) activates the missed approach in the FMS
    d) sets the flight director to 12 degrees pitch up in PITCH mode
    e) IF the auto throttles are on, commands full power

  31. Mach/KIAS switch does work, but clickable area to click the speed knob is small.

  32. FMS speed schedule is the default selection, but not included in the game. Should be 250 kt < 10k ft, 300 kt from 10k to 29,375 ft, 0.80 Mach from 29,375 ft to 45,000 ft for climb. Cruise is VMO or MMO depending on altitude. Descent with flaps up is VMO or MMO depending on altitude above 10k ft, flaps up below 10k ft is 250 kt, 200 kt flaps 1 or 7°, 160 flaps 2 or 15°, and 140 flaps full or 35°.

  33. Fuel cutoff switch on the right side of the throttles on the pedestal doesn’t exist IRL. Instead it’s FUEL GRAVITY XFLOW and can be used to passively balance fuel between tanks

  34. Bus tie is only closed when engines are off. Automatic only on the ground

  35. Ground Spoilers should be in NORM by default.

  36. Pitot heat should be on automatically in flight.

  37. Windshield heat should be on all the time.

  38. G5000 displays Mach below the airspeed tape when > 0.4

  39. Default flaps for takeoff is 2 or 15°.

  40. I understand if there’s no intention to include the automatic performance reserve feature, but please remove the abnormal, red indication from the panel (next to standby instrument).

  41. HUD Display not working (not yet certified on real aircraft, so not a critical issue)

At the very (very) least, please address the fuel capacity ASAP

The community isn’t asking for a full-fledged, completely accurate G5000. In the short-term, we’re just asking for the plane to fly (in an aerodynamic sense) in the sim as close to its real-world counterpart as possible. Thank you for reading.

Many, many thanks to Mark (OliveBeast 20441) for compiling the original list:

and to BanjoApocalypse for identifying additional bugs and DiBarkis for additional weights and performance values.

-Elliot

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Elliot,

I agree with this approach. In fact, if there are other team members who can compile similar lists for the remaining aircraft, they should be posted in the same format you just created, using the same title format, compiled by one person, receiving inputs from the community. That way, Asobo can concentrate on one list per plane and we look much more professional as a community.

Thank you for editing the list; it makes much more sense now.

Mark

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You forget the Auto throttle light does not turn on when engaged.

AT_Light

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  • “Landing Gear” continuous, repeated warning whenever throttle is at idle. (very annoying! Reducing the speed on auto-throttle often causes this for me)

Things not mentioned in the list.

-While other G5000 autothrottle installations do move the throttles to takeoff when advanced past a certain throttle position, Longitude’s doesn’t.

-Mach/KIAS switch does work, but clickable area to click the speed knob is small.

-FMS speed schedule is the default selection, but not included in the game. Should be 250 kt < 10k ft, 300 kt from 10k to 29,375 ft, 0.80 Mach from 29,375 ft to 45,000 ft for climb. Cruise is VMO or MMO depending on altitude. Descent with flaps up is VMO or MMO depending on altitude above 10k ft, flaps up below 10k ft is 250 kt, 200 kt flaps 1 or 7°, 160 flaps 2 or 15°, and 140 flaps full or 35°.

-Fuel cutoff switch on the right side of the throttles on the pedestal doesn’t exist IRL. Instead it’s FUEL GRAVITY XFLOW and can be used to passively balance fuel between tanks.

-Bus tie is only closed when engines are off. Automatic only on the ground.

-Ground Spoilers should be in NORM by default.

-Pitot heat should be on automatically in flight.

-Windshield heat should be on all the time.

-Need to have autothrottle mode annunciations in FMA.

-G5000 displays Mach below the airspeed tape when > 0.4.

-Stall speeds are about 20 kt too fast. Aircraft should be able to leap off the ground on takeoff, not barely lumber into the air while stalling.

-Default flaps for takeoff is 2 or 15°.

-“Landing Gear” warning should only play when flaps are fully extended and gear is up.

-I understand if there’s no intention to include the automatic performance reserve feature, but please remove the abnormal, red indication from the panel (next to standby instrument).

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There should be a “warning acknowledge / silence” Button ???

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I love this plane, but it unflyable now.

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Am I the only one that feels like we paid for a Lamborghini but got a Prius with a body kit and almost dead battery?

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Even though Asobo looks at the list of bug facts above and supposedly attempts to fix them, I wonder whether they will ever have a proper internal flight sim enthusiast perform reasonable user acceptance testing prior releasing as a patch later… Else the issues would continue to go in cycles that will cause more disappointment to the community.

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Anyone else had their speed indicator just randomly stop working in the CCT? Believe it happened to me before 1.10.11.0 and I blamed it on liverys. Emptied the community folder and its still happening. Same for a friend of mine when we fly CCTs together.

For me, this has only happened during icing - maybe turn all the de-icing thingies on?

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what? the violent pitching?

No, I meant the speed indicator no longer working (as described by @jasongiltrap) only happened to me during icing, with the de-icing equipment off.

Unrelated to that, I’ve also had my share of major autopilot issues, including violent pitching.

About the dolphin/oscillation issue:
In most of my flights i’ve only noticed it above a specific altitude. For me it usually starts above ~31.000 feet or so. As soon as i get below it it’s much more stable.

If it’s for other people the same experience it might help to narrow the issue a bit more down.

Is the fuel consumption (PPH) wrong only for cruise or also for idle and max power?

Maybe a good time to remind many of you on the whishlist for unlocking the aircraft files:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/unlock-fsarchive-files-for-premium-and-deluxe-aircraft

When looking at the working title guys who made an extremely improved CJ4 and the G300 mod imagine what they could do with our loved Longitude! Please help to increase the votes there, thank you!

:champagne: well, almost :crossed_fingers:

This has FINALLY begun and has a landing date. Let’s hope for the best

I submitted a question for the Developer Q&A on allowing modifications to the premium deluxe aircraft. Please upvote it to get this question into the live Q&A!

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Under number 1 item, I think we should provide all the weights and performance available at textron’s site just in case there are specs buried somewhere in some cfg file but not apparent to us, so they can also append accordingly. So here’s what I’ve got, and I know some of it has been listed already, so just add the missing ones:

WEIGHTS
Maximum Ramp Weight: 39,700 lb
Maximum Takeoff Weight: 39,500 lb
Maximum Landing Weight: 33,500 lb
Maximum Zero Fuel Weight: 26,000 lb
Usable Fuel Capacity - Usable Fuel Weight: 14,500 lb
Usable Fuel Capacity - Usable Fuel Volume: 2,200 gal
Basic Operating Weight: 23,600 lb
Useful Load: 16,100 lb
Maximum Payload: 2,400 lb
Full Fuel Payload: 1,600 lb

PERFORMANCE
Maximum Cruise Speed: 483 ktas
Maximum Range: 3,500 nm
Field Takeoff Length: 4,810 ft
Landing Distance: 3,170 ft
Maximum Limit Speed: 0.84 Mach

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