Flying the Cessna Citation X the last week or so, I’ve been unable to get an ILS landing to work. The avionics locks onto the ILS beacon but brings the aircraft down several hundred feet short of the landing zone. I’ve checked this at multiple airports, large and small. I’m using my procedure every time and what used to work for hundreds of landings seems to fail every time. I’ve checked barometer settings prior to landing, speed, ILS freqs, everything I can think of. I haven’t tried to reinstall the aircraft as everything else seems to be in order…
Hi @trashmon49
I don’t have that plane so I can’t check the issue. But I’m wondering if the developers of that aircraft have an issue with the changes to the NavData made in update 6.
Per the release notes:
“NavData
Fixed path point threshold crossing height values.
Aligned ILS localizers and glideslopes with runways when they are not intentionally offset.
Added threshold crossing height for glideslope.”
I wonder if something in FlightFX coding conflicts with those changes. Or possibly, some other add-on, mod, etc is conflicting with the plane, and the changes in SU6. You might report the issue to FlightFX and see if they’ve had those issues reported/identified.
I’ve have great results from the SU6 NAVDATA changes in the stock MS/Asobo planes so far.
Regards
Thanks for the reply! Just got done flying the Citation X in MSFS2020 and got the same results. I’m going to try the P180 and the Baron in MSFS2020 and see what the results are. Seems strange that both the 2020 and 2024 from the same developer have this issue. I’m getting more practice in pilot controlled landings than I really wanted, but…LOL!
Just finished a flight with the P180 Avanti, landing at KDEN R35L, and the VNAV finally latched onto the beacon and controlled down to my landing. Apparently, whatever is up with the FlightFX Citation X hasn’t spilled over into other FlightFX products. Going to try the Baron in FS2020 and see if there’s a ILS Landing problem there.
Flew the Baron to Denver, been a long while since I flew that aircraft, but managed the trip, and it followed the glide slope down on a VNAV ILS landing correctly. I think my procedure in ILS setup is correct, something is wrong with the Citation X. I haven’t visited the FlightFX site yet, but maybe that’s my next path. Unless I want to continue with perfect three point (read three bounces) landings
So I gave the Citation X another try (sure sign of insanity) and once again, failed to get a good ILS lock, the green ILS beacon bug indicator always below my flight path and attempts to capture failed, had to hand fly to a landing. This is KDEN ILS 35L approach and the altitude fix is published as 7000FT., at waypoint DYMON.
I decided to cheat. set the last target altitude at DYMON to 6800, rather than 7000, and I got a lock on and landed with the ILS assistance.
Haven’t experienced any TOD detection as of yet, that is after dozens of flights in the Citation X. I usually use FL320 or more.
The method I used to get around ILS capture seems to work, I just make sure the deviation from the published capture altitude is only 1oo - 200 feet lower.
I believe the GS is not accurate for that approach!
I flew the KDEN/ILS 35L approach in the TBM and armed the APR at CRUUP to see what indications I would get, and I found a couple of interesting things:
First, the unfilled-in glide slope diamond (meaning the signal is not strong enough to capture), actually crosses the point where it would normally capture it well above the FAF altitude. That’s not unheard of since you’re still descending, but it’s certainly an indication that the difference between your actual altitude and the GS capture altitude is pretty small from that point on. As you descend at a normal rate (3 degrees), the GS indicator should stay above the intercept marker. For this approach, you’d have to be descending at an abnormally high rate for that to happen. (no notes on the FAA approach chart identifying a higher than normal descent rate for the last couple of intersections) So if you’re descending at a normal rate, the GS diamond will actually fall below the point of capture, and the Garmin won’t capture it.
If you descend fairly rapidly to 7000MSL (FAF crossing altitude per the chart) some distance from DYMON, you will see the diamond is now in its correct position above you.
Note you’re already below the TCH when you’re well short of the runway.
I’m a bit rushed and short on time right now, so I’ll retest when I get back later.
Regards
P.S. I tried this approach slightly differently, and activated the APR very early. The system captured the LOC/GS significantly before the FAF/ILS feather on the approach chart. And by significantly, I mean several waypoints prior! But it did lock the LOC/GS and did a fairly normal approach it appeared. However, the end result was the same as the first test. The plane can in way too low, and would have hit the ground well before the threshold, and failed the landing.
I recently purchased the v2 and no issues so far with approach & landing using ILS, jut that it needs to be manually flown as there is no autoland like the airbus etc.
Have made many successful ILS approaches, landings, VNAV TOD detection success, etc. Really strange that a few folks are seeing something different. I’m on PS5 though and my add-ons are limited to what’s available in the Marketplace. Any chance something is creating a conflict? I also only have the option to stream. I know sometimes there are issues if you have the aircraft downloaded locally after an update. Just shooting in the dark though, hopefully knowing it’s not a universal issue helps you troubleshoot
I’ve just flown my first ILS approach with V2.0, just happens to be LOWW ILS-Z 29 from a BAL4M transition. What I noticed was that when flying the transition, the AP left me at 8000 with ALT engaged, even though the procedure indicated A6000 at that stage. By the time I intercepted the LOC and received the GS, still at 8000, I was above the glideslope, and the AP wasn’t going to intercept it by descending. So I manually descended to intercept the GS, re-engaged the AP, and all was normal from there.
Now this may not be indicative of what’s happening to other people, but I’ll certainly keep my eye out for this behavior in the future.
As to TOD not showing up, I had no problem with that. But they made a lot of changes to the FMS with 2.0, and it may be more restrictive (as in real world). So make sure you have your Arrival properly programmed in the FMS before you get to the TOD. Once you’re already past the TOD, the FMS isn’t going to start the descend without manual intervention.
I have re-flown this approach now a couple more times:
The first with 2020 and the old 1.3.8, no problems encountered.
The second with 2024 and the new V2 and this time I had no problems with the transition and ILS approach. However this time it failed to descend when reaching the initial TOD from cruise, even though the TOD showed up on the map and was also shown on the PROG Page 2. It just flew past it, and the magenta caret just scrolled past on the altimeter strip. I’m pretty sure there’s nothing different that I did during all 3 flights.
I just flew the same STAR and ILS with transition into LOWW with V2.2 in 2024, and it was spot on!
Whatever changes they made to calculate the VPTH for waypoints that have both upper and lower restrictions seems to have done the trick. I now hope WT gets hold of that code for the PL21, because both the CJ4 and P.180 have issues when proc altitude restrictions get “complicated”. Main reason I haven’t bought the 800XP as yet.
