Closing of bug reports

Discussion Hub General Discussion
23

I think that is a misassumption, especially on aircraft. The feedback was most likely collected internally. There might be a backlog dedicated to aircraft which includes most to all bugs. The topic over here might have been closed as there is no work actively being done for the MSFS 2020 version of the aircraft and the improvements will go into their MSFS 2024 version.

HOWEVER that does not automatically mean these improvements will not come to MSFS2020 - as Jörg Neumann told the new aircraft may be backported if feasible (last developer stream about FFX).

On the F/A-18E and the C172 we were already able to see that especially the virtual cockpits were completely reworked and improved in the technical alpha. While these were obviously still WIP it might be that especially the interiors can be ported back and will be available on “the old” version of the sim. In one go they could also fix some of the systems.

No guarantees however, that’s just based on what I saw and what was told.

Understandable that this feels pretty inconvenient but usually it’s devs working on these items - and devs are not best in communicating quite sometimes :wink: I also sometimes comment on internal user stories after their closure to at least shortly explain what was done or why something was rejected so someone can at least later see more specifics.

The moderators over here usually also only see the status of the internal story and can only get additional information after asking people with a different level of access to the stories details.

24

Well, I guess we have to wait and see if any of these bugs are fixed in FS24 but several of those near the top like external raindrops or plane in sunlight even in cloud or moonlight always too bright – the preview videos show these various things as fixed.

My personal bug report marked as ‘wont fix’ - the Pipistrel Virus head restriction thing - I get the feeling there are contract issues with Pipistrel or something – but it seems clear there will be plenty of aircraft in the new sim for me to enjoy and maybe (probably) there will be one Ill enjoy even more… theres more important stuff - especially right now.

PS: @N316TS thank you for compiling that list. That definitely took some work!

25

this is sole the reason why i dont fly the virus, can i still vote on it?

28

I hope someone higher up at MS/Asobo reads this thread, it’s one thing to have bugs in any software but when you have something that works perfectly but then it’s broken in an update to then state “won’t fix” is completely unacceptable.

It’s bad enough that those bugs appear in the first place, it’s bad enough they don’t get fixed for many updates, it’s the ultimate kick in the face when they don’t get fixed at all. It’s not helped by developers response in Q&As either, Martials on the Shutdown Bug was an appalling response, it was as though he didn’t realise nor care about the severity of the issue that his team created.

Hot Fixes to amend regression issues must be a priority in MSFS2024, we barely had a few with the MSFS2020. Take pride in your work and don’t leave issues to be ignored.

29

My Personal Comment & Observation

At the Global Preview Event Presentation, Jorg mentioned that the world & city updates and all aircraft are not made by Asobo, but by partners.

So I would think most - if not all - of these bug-fixes would need to be made by these partners too, as they are in the best position to have the individuals with the technical skills, know-how & ability to make the required changes.

I’m speculating here, but one of the problems might have been what contractual obligations these partners had in 2020 for fixing bugs. I doubt they are going to do it indefinitely for free - they are running a business, after all & have to pay their employees & make some profit.

If the contractual agreement did / does not include bug-fixing for a period of time after release of the product, then that might explain why bugs were not fixed. Or, if it did, why bugs reported after that time period ended were not fixed.

Furthermore, not all work may have been done by employees of these partners. These companies may have sub-contracted out certain portions of the work to other individuals, who now may not be available. Or perhaps an employee who worked on the feature to be fixed has left the partner company to further their career, or is out on leave for a period of time, etc. etc. All this adds delay to releasing any potential bug-fix.

I’m not trying here to make excuses on behalf of Microsoft for why bugs were not fixed, only to point out that bug-fixing in a game this complex & with so many partners - both internal to Microsoft & external - is a lot more complicated than just saying: “Oh, a bug with aircraft X or scenery Y or service Z has just been reported - let’s get Bob or Alice sitting over there to fix it by the end of the week”.

If my “contractual obligations” speculation is correct, hopefully Microsoft has implemented a more robust bug-fixing agreement with their partners for MSFS 2024.

30

the choice of words goes a loooooong way in this kind of thing
“we did it that way by design to improve performance”
is much better than “won’t fix. period.”

31

it doesn’t appear that you can. I suspect all of these are closed.

32

Is this the so called commitment to the ongoing support of MSFS2020?
Looks like it is going to be dead in the water(or sky).

33

In the software world I come from, one closes the bug when they don’t intend to fix it. If the plan is to fix it in 2024, in the world I come from, you mark the bug as blocked until you’re in a position to back-port it. However, from a couple decades doing software professionally, I know that every place has different processes. So let’s all come back to this thread in a year and see where we are.

Also, just to clarify something:

Moderators have no access to the bug tracker. The only thing they can see is a hidden linkage to the actual logged bug, but that’s where the access stops.

34

Will do for sure. Not just in one year but also after release. Coming from the SAFe world for close to 3 years now I at least think that MS uses something similar, looking at the initial 8 week release cycles for sim updates (which is exactly one PI in my current project).

That’s not entirely correct as moderators have a link to that in form of the community managers which are MS employees and also have access to the bug trackers :wink:

35

I know that people are frustrated that bugs are closed in this way, but I’m not exactly sure that is worse than the never-ending “bug-logged” for years with zero resolution.

I get the feeling this is a Bug Collector’s paradise and not a Bug Exterminator’s paradise.

What we got here is a bunch of entomologists.

37

my feelings exactly
i fully understand its not possible to fix ALL the bugs, absolutely every single little thing… that’s not possible.. .. ok, fine
but honestly, this is not what’s happening here,
way too many bugs, too many releases full of bugs and too little attention and energy devoted to fixing them

38

Most of the aircraft that came with the sim were done by Asobo. You can see for yourself which ones are done by looking at the aircraft in the fs-base folder (maybe Content Manager has it, too, but I can’t tell without going into the sim). Unfortunately, I’m traveling and don’t have access to the sim, but off the top of my head, I believe that the Baron, Virus, and Shock Ultra, all on the list above, were made by Asobo.

And if they can’t do the fixes because of SLAs, then shame on them for not having longer SLAs, because a huge number of these bugs are from 2020 and 2021.

Some of the airport bugs were closed and punted to the World Hub. Which basically means, “You don’t like it? You fix it!” A big thanks to the world team for pushing it back on us.

39

even if they weren’t made by Asobo themselves, it doesn’t matter
if a 3rd party was contracted by microsoft to make an a/c (707) and it turns out full of bugs, then that’s on microsoft, the same goes for all the “official” a/c for lack of a better term
you can’t just say oh that was the 3rd party dev… its them that have to fix it
i’m sorry, but no, it doesnt work like that

40

Yes. I was replying to someone else who was putting out the possibility that service level agreements may have expired on some of these items. I would seriously hope that is not the case. I agree that that would not be acceptable.

41

Crazy that the mouse issue on Xbox will not get fixed, what a way to loose customers when support for mouse is simply ignored and not getting fixed. Some of these bugs not getting fixed is just beyond me, can only hope those issues got fixed for 2024.

42

I’m still holding out hope that this was a mass-close of bugs that will definitely not get fixed for 2020, regardless of whether the bug was fixed (or became obsolete due to other changes) in 2024.

As a software developer myself I know that bug tracker resolutions are often … unsubtle clubs when you sometimes need finer tools for customer communications. :smiley:

fingers crossed

43

I hear you on that. Although if true, at the risk of rehashing what’s been discussed ad nauseum in the #discussion-hub:msfs-2024 subcategory, it does feel a little like, ‘You want this thing fixed that we either broke or should have done right the first time? Fork over $70 and maybe we’ll consider it.’

And also, when all the MSFS 2024 videos and articles came out, I spent the weekend watching and reading all of them. And then reading all the comments. A remarkable number of people wrote in the comments that they needed to stick to 2020 because where they live in the world doesn’t have fast Internet. So it really stinks for anyone who won’t be able to take a step forward.

I know you’re trying to think positively and here I am raining on your parade. So sorry for that!

44

That bug is crazy! I don’t own an Xbox, but I can only begin to imagine how frustrating it must be.
It sounds like they actually tried, but could never reproduce the issue on their side. I don’t mean to drag this thread off-topic, but back when the sim had just launched, I asked a question at a developer stream about when we’d ever see an in-sim bug reporting tool, where you could upload the last x seconds of your telemetry right from the sim. Jörg answered that one and said (in so many words), “One step at a time.” I wonder if they would have gotten what they needed from an in-sim bug reporting tool like that.
But anyway, I digrees.

45

exactly this
speaking for the bugs that annoy me the most, those that ruin a long flight

i totally understand that a bug that reveals itself intermittently and only after a 3 hour long flight is an absolute nightmare to track down and reproduce
however! if your product is a flight simulator, then that kind of scenario will be unavoidable, you should anticipate that!
don’t just leave it unfixed!
the devs should take the higher road here

an insim bug tool sounds like just the thing, because with a bug like this you will have the tracking down done for you by the users!!