Do airline pilots try to “butter the bread “ in real life?

Thanks for clarifying on this :cowboy_hat_face: :small_airplane:

Folks, let’s make sure you’re talking about “in the context” of the sim. This conversation is taking a hard turn away from that. Thanks.

No, Ryanair offers bonuses to pilots who can smash up landing gear on landing.

My best landing was also in Maui but it could have had something to do with an eight hour flight in first class and maybe one or six drinks along the way?!?

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As a pilot myself, the most important concern on landing is safety and passenger comfort is not as important. Also, after fighting with a crosswind, or keep going around, or after a long day of flying fatigue does affect the landing.

In the sim context, no one is going to complain about comfort. Don’t follow rules land anyway you want.

I’ve been a business jet pilot, I don’t agree with that statement. There is no difference between flying a business jet or any other commercial aircraft (passengers, cargo, whatever). The rules are the same, the consequences are the same when doing it wrong. Personally I never cared who or what has been in the back. Of course, you could try making a greaser when possible given the conditions, but it should never be the aim and unnecessarily extend the landing distance. We have had people doing this what I call d**k measuring competitions, seeing who can make the smoothest touchdown, eventually people were landing with power on, making long landings to make a greaser. That is when it is becoming dangerous.

Or perhaps - ‘should the landing challenges have slightly different success criteria to reflect real-life priorities?’ :slight_smile:

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That’s the “gaming part” of the sim. :sunglasses:

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I‘m not a real life Pilot but I work for an Airline.
I do believe that everything between: „the passenger didn’t even felt the landing“ and short before a very hard landing with a necessary hard landing inspection is fine.
Sometimes external situations like weather trigger the hardness of landing, sometimes internal situations aka pilots mood trigger it.
It depends on many many factors as already written.

I always try to make a smooth landing. Of course, touchdown planning is contextual (winds, runway condition, runway length, etc.) I’ve only briefed a firm touchdown a handful of times in my career and it’s always been due to one of the aforementioned factors.

Remember though, smooth landings means nothing if you’re unstable, outside of the touchdown zone, not on center line, etc. You can hand fly a beautiful approach and still have a firm landing…Sadly, passengers will only judge you on the touchdown. You can have an amazingly smooth landing while being 10 knots slow, 4 inches from scraping the tail, and fully left of the center line…

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Hi, yes a nice landings is a good end to a flight. We try to not overly strive for ‘greasers’, as this eats up runway length, but on a nice day a soft touchdown is good practice and is appreciated by the aircraft, passengers and crew.

As others have said, the answer is “maybe.” It’s all situational. Nice day, landing on a 10,000ft runway? Sure, why not? This never, ever means it’s acceptable to fly an approach that’s unstable, or to touchdown out of the touchdown zone or beyond LTP… but within those parameters, there’s no harm in milking it for a bit to find that roll-on touchdown.

However, on a lousy windy day in Lihue, or to a contaminated runway at Wrangell, Petersburg, Kodiak, Sitka etc? Absolutely not. Down and stopped. Touchdown firmness not even a consideration.

I’ve told students and FOs for years: nothing will kill you faster in an airplane than an ego. If you let ego and a desire to impress people dictate how you operate an airplane - you should not be operating an airplane.

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I recall a friend of mine at the local aeroclub about 20 years ago talking about how he ground looped a Queen Air on ice in the shade at the end of a grass strip and it ended up facing 180 degrees back the way he came with no damage. Apparently after he taxied back up the runway to the parking and the passengers were dismounting they congratulated him on the “skilful and professional way he quickly turned the plane”.

I assume he filed an incident report but the passengers never knew anything went wrong.

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Working for one of the biggest airline in europe - 13.000 hrs -10.000 PIC all on 737 and A320 - except for standing water, other runway contaminations, heavy! crosswind and short runways: every pilot I know tries to do the touchdown as smooth as possible. Intentional firm touchdown is an urban myth (under normal circumstances, as said before). But maybe i just know the wrong pilots.

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I remember a zero visibility landing in Texas back in the 90’s. We hit so hard I heard a woman scream and I hurt my neck. The pilot came on and blamed it on the autopilot sticking the landing. It was like a mild car accident.

Later working for an airline I asked some of the senior pilots about that and they had a laugh on blaming the auto pilot.

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@anon50268670 I was reading this topic and half expected you to quote our favorite FCOM that states Long flare and "greased” landings are not recommended by ATR.

nogrease

This statement has been given me an excuse for every firm touch down since my type rating :rofl:

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If it was truly a zero visibility landing in the 90s, you bet the autopilot landed it. HUDs with AIII approach modes weren’t in airliners then, and there would be no way other than an autoland to fly a zero visibility approach.

And yeah, the autopilot can plant it hard sometimes. Certainly not to the point of injury, something must have gone wrong with it in the flare… but sounds like that was definitely the autopilot.

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I flew to Madeira on business a few years ago. Very gusty on approach with strong crosswinds, way worse than the landing challenge in the sim. We hit the runway hard, bounced at least once and you could feel it fighting to go sideways. It was very nervy, and there were a few screams and gasps in the cabin. Once it was all slowed down I turned to the elderly couple in the seats next to me and asked if they were OK. “Oh, we’ve been coming he for 20 years” she said. “That was the best landing we’ve ever had!”

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Thanks for all the advice. I’ve tried not extending the flare too much in the Landing Challenges and found it easier to hit the touchdown zone and keep the centre line. As long as I do that without bouncing I’m now happier with a B than before!

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