To all real life airline pilots out there. Am I trying too hard to make an immaculate touchdown in the sim. I’ve flown as a passenger on the Melbourne/Sydney shuttle frequently in the last few months, and all the landings have been quite hard. Is it a case of planting the aircraft down rather than buttering the bread?
I’ve flown a few times in my day - some landings were very glassy - others were less so. Most hairball landing was in a snowstorm at night in Colorado. Very fast approach in the MD80 to power through the wind gusts. By the time the jet was over the fence the pilot seemed to be done with the game and just wanted the wheels on the ground.
Best landing was in Maui but that was probably due more to the location of that vacation than what the actual landing was like.
Then there was that time our airliner passed another going the opposite direction at our flight level and only 50yds off our starboard wing…on a flight from KSAN to Louisville. We were at our cruising altitude mid flight and my friend said “hey Kev look…is that right?” just as the other Boeing zipped past - “nope - that isn’t right at all” and you know once we landed that’s the first time in my experience the cockpit door never opened as the pax deplaned. Good thing too because I had questions
1 Like
Landings are generally not soft because:
- You want the wheels on the ground and gripping the runway so you can better maintain directional control and start braking, if necessary.
- Tire wear is best if the tire makes contact firmly with the runway and starts rolling straight away. To light a touch can give the flat spots apparently.
- In the wet, you need the tires to push out the water on the runway.
Those are some reasons I’ve read from real airline pilots. I’ve flown two seaters and I made my landings soft but never tried to make them super smooth like the sim challenges want us too. I want to know the mains are down properly so I can lower the nose and get off the runway.
3 Likes
Makes sense. If there’s a crosswind you’d want to land firmly I presume.
1 Like
Common sense.
- Firm but not so hard you bounce or break the gear.
- NEVER land on the nose wheel
- NEVER land without the aircraft aligned with the direction of travel
There was a fatal incident on a grass strip near here where a light plane with a student at the controls landed too hard due to wind shear, did a successful go around, but on the second attempt turned out one of the main wheels had jammed in the first attempt which threw them off the runway and into trees.
I think, every landing is different and depends on the avaiable runway type and length.
Also: calculated landingspeed, based on air density, total remaining weight, bursts and crosswind component to deal with.
Main goal is to get the bird on the ground at first attempt and for that reason sometimes the pilot has to hit the deck pretty hard.
But… as long as the circumstances allow it, most pilots will try to butter the bread as smooth as possible.
Without doubt to feed their own ego but also so to comfort their passengers.
Once had a pilot who came up with a great excuse for a particularly hard landing at Heathrow. As we were taxiing he apologised over the intercom but explained that Heathrow had raised the level of the runway since he was last there.
10 Likes
Hahahaha, I like that kind of humor 
Short answer → No. While its the most important criteria for passengers in assessing the landing (
). Its actually the least important factor for a safe landing. Its of course nice if a soft touchdown occurs but it should not be the aim. Its far more important to land with a safe vertical rate within the touchdown zone than extending the flare in an attempt to land softly. Sometimes it is essential to make “positive” touchdown, when the runway is short for example or contaminated.
5 Likes
Point one is true on a wet or contaminated runway. Its not very relevant on a dry runway. Of course you shouldn’t extend the flare in order to try and make a soft landing, which is true in any condition.
Braking wear is absolutely higher when touching down firmly! Worst case it creates flat spots on the tire.
Point three is kind of true, you might end up aquaplaning when making a greaser. You need to establish contact with the runway by touching down firmly.
This is only true on small GA aircraft. Boeing 737 to give an example can land without decrabbing at all up to something like 40 kts crosswind, although not advisable on a dry runway. You can’t land with zero-crab on most commercial jets at max crosswind as you will plant the wingtip into the ground.
Either kick the aircraft straight just before touchdown while maintaing wings level, or partly use the wing-low technique while maintaining some crab to limit the bank angle required to counter drift. Third method would be to land in a crab (not decrabbing at all). None of those are completely side-load free.
Air density has no effect on landing speed as landing speed primarily based stall speed which is not affected by air density (indicated airspeed). Landing speed (Vref / Vat) is usually 1.3 x Vs + wind correction. Wind correction is always based on headwind component and gust, if wind is completely cross you won’t add a correction (only for the gust).
Boeing, Embrear, … → 1/2 headwind + gust
Airbus, ATR, … → 1/3 headwind OR gust (higher of)
Usually minimum is +5 kts and maximum +15/20 kts, something in that ballpark.
3 Likes
Of course everyone loves butter and I have experienced many as a passenger on the King Twin 777 - but as an airline pilot explained to me…it is not a priority and is heavily dependent on many factors.
The aim is to touch down accurately on the relevant markers, get weight-on-wheels ASAP, kill the lift (spoilers) , reverse thrust and get the brakes going. On windy blustery days the touchdowns will be firm.
The last thing professional airliner pilots want to do is float…float…to make it butter.
Quite a good video on it here:
1 Like
No real pilot would be caught dead uttering the phrase “buttering the bread”. 
5 Likes
Well, over with my company, as FO, hopefully becoming captain by the end of this year, we make an effort to make the landing as relaxing as possible for the passengers. Keeping this in mind, unlike a simulation in real life, it could get quite expensive or even deadly if our goal was always to “butter the landing.” Yes, sometimes luck comes in, but safety is the #1 priority always. Sometimes you can’t avoid those hard landings that shake your legs. 
1 Like
Depends, particularly on the conditions. If it’s rainy and gusty, the runway may be slippery. Some runways are worse than others. In such a situation you may want to plant it on. Same on a shorter runway, you just want to get it down. But if you’ve got a long runway in nice conditions, then sure, you try and make it a greaser.
(And of the 15 answers to the question directed at real pilots, clearly 12 of them are from people who have never actually flown an airplane)
6 Likes
And especially when it’s wet to prevent aquaplaning. God bless gravity. Who would’ve thought…it actually makes flying safer!
The flight simulation community is notoriously affiliated with armchair wannabe pilots. Can’t do much about it 
6 Likes
747gear (YouTube) says private jet pilots are hired by the owner and a rough landing could impact the pilot’s employment. He then says when flying commercial passengers he greases the landings when he can simply because of his private jet experience, but when flying cargo the plane is brought down in any means necessary… smoothness not a priority at all.
1 Like