Mod Edit: Subject Line Typo corrected, and text added because correcting it made it a Duplicate of a pre-existing thread title.
As a privet pilot doing VFR, would you typically make flight plans that take you over the restrictions on class C airspaces or would you route around them? If you go over, would you still contact the tower?
In the sim I tend to make flight plans that keep me off the radio unless I’m going to be landing at a controlled airport.
I’m only a sim pilot. But I try to plan going around or being higher than Class B and C airspace.
Sometimes it can’t be avoided though depending on your arrival or departure airport.
I’m just curious if there is a preferred method? I always feel like I’m doing something wrong going over. But I see it sometimes on FR24 where it looks like they are being used for waypoints.
Also, I would expect there is less chance of encountering airport traffic going in and out of the airspace. And if you got into trouble, they make good emergency landing locations.
Class C is not restricted, you just need radio contact with ATC. As a real pilot, the answer is it depends, if its a very busy class C that is not worth th trouble I will go around it, but a lot of times they are not too busy and its quite helpful to be on radio with class C and be in contact with them. Just an FYI for you the only airspace that you actually need clearance and permission to enter is class B. once again that is depends on how busy it is and you are not guaranteed to get clearance thru a bravo in a GA private pilot plane in VFR
to answer your quesation, I always plan to go thru a class C. I will plan to go thru a B, but have a backup plan to go around it if I am denied clearance.
I live and fly in Pittsburgh and there is a big class B right in the middle of everyhting, I fly thru it all the time in a cessna 152, but sometimes i do get denied clearance when its very busy. I get a flight following, and they will then tell me if i am cleared thru the Bravo or not.
Here is a video that I did with a flight following a few summers ago
Probably seems like a silly question but is there some procedure or process you follow besides to contact? It seems like it would be bad to me to be traversing through typical runway glide slops and such at a busy class C airport.
Also depends on the weather. I don’t know what the limitations are in FAA-land, in EASA-land in order to cross class B, C, D or E airspace you’ll need to stay VMC (of course) which means 5 or 8 km visibility depending on height above ground, 1500 m horizontal separation from clouds and 1000 ft vertical separation. In uncontrolled airspace, if you stay low, you’ll need to stay “clear of clouds” which could theoretically mean 1 ft separation, and in most places you can go as low as 1500 m visibility. So it might be necessary to plan around CTRs and TMAs and stay in uncontrolled airspace.
Some control zones might allow “special VFR” with lower visibility and cloud separation, but only a few aircraft can enter under special VFR at a given time. So it wouldn’t be wise to plan with that. At least take enough fuel to fly around controlled airspace.
Airspace structure is much more restrictive in Europe, there usually isn’t any “free” uncontrolled airspace at higher altitude to allow flying over airports and airspaces without talking to anyone. You’ll need a clearance to cross class A to D in Europe. Class A does not allow VFR traffic, there are certain exceptions that need to be pre-approved.
Most of the time you probably should be talking to approach around a class C because there’s generally a lot of traffic. Directly over the airport usually isn’t a problematic place - it’s hanging around the periphery of the 5 mile surface area or just outside the 10-mile shelf ring on the extended centerlines from 2000’ up to around 10000’ AGL. Or wherever they’re bringing large aircraft onto, say, a downwind leg. Or other arrival/departure gates. Technically legal, but not a great idea. It helps if you know their traffic flows for the current wind.
A class C also has an uncharted “outer area” that goes out to 20nm. Radar services are available and it’s probably a good idea to be talking to them, but it’s not mandatory outside the lines and charted altitudes.
So to answer your question directly, if I’m going over the top within a reasonable vertical distance, I’m probably going to be talking to approach. Otherwise, if I don’t want to talk to them, I route around them, give it a good amount of space (5-10 miles or more). Personally, I’d rather fly below the shelf in some cases because I know big iron won’t be there - but now you’ve got obstructions, other traffic, and birds.
Don’t forget your transponder and ADS-B out if you’re above but within the lateral bounds of C.
I should add - part of it depends on whatever else is around it like high terrain, weather, or other airspace. Sometimes it’s better to call up and head through it.
Class B airspaces are usually very high and wide taking time to go over or around them. However, to make things easier for VFR pilots, special charts have been created for Claas B airspaces showing pre-authorized VFR routes through the Class B avoiding departing and arriving traffic. Since they are VFR charts, they use landmarks for navigation.
BTW, there are pilots who challenge themselves to fly using only Class G (uncontrolled) airspaces to avoid having to contact ATC. These flights take a LOT of planning!
the only requirement to enter class C is positive radio contact meaning, you contact the approach, when they reply with your tail number you are now legal to be in the Class C, they will most likely give you a transponder code and if they do not like where you are or what you are doing, they will let you know. 99.9% of the time they are super nice and helpful, and are there to serve you. As VFR never be afraid or hesitant to enter Class C.
That’s kind of how I sim when trying to do realistic plans.
Would you typically do anything special to traverse? It seems like you would not want to pass directly over an active runway at 1000 ft AGL. I could see crossing 1500 ft+ AGL perpendicular.
Then there what appear to me to be ILS glide slopes into Class C airspaces that go through Class G. In the sim I’ve had close calls with airliners in those areas, which makes me think going through at 1500+ may be the safest option.
That’s what I was talking about. The controllers at class C airports (whether tracon, tower, or combined “up-down”) don’t like when you hang out around certain areas of the periphery. It’s not clearly shown on the charts, but as you’d imagine, extend the runway centerlines and anything along that area, inside or outside of the Charlie is going to put you and them in a bad spot.
This is why they’re starting to use the idea of “Super Charlies,” like they implemented at KBNA - where the extended centerline airspace is more protected out to a farther distance and higher altitude than a standard Charlie.
Doing this is less restrictive and resource intensive (and thus more politically palatable) than a Bravo. I could see them converting a few Bravos to Super Charlies in the future (KMSY, maybe KSTL and a few others).
That’s what’s puzzled me. It seems easy to fly around those spots without any need to contact the tower. If VFR rules are being followed pilots should be looking out for each other. But in theory one could disrupt a considerable amount of traffic at some airports.
Could and do. Like I said, this is a known issue. It’s part of our overall ADM and it should have been part of your training. That said, there are vast swaths of the country in which the airspace is not congested or complex and not every instructor, much less their students, get exposed to this kind of thing. It remains a nebulous theoretical exercise in the AIM, the PHAK, or other Advisories Circular, in which we talk about this possibility but have never really seen it in action.
Thanks, it’s kind of interesting how one can pick up on this problem from just the sim. I’ll see something and be aware there has to be knowledge I’m missing.
I’ve come to realize that aviation, at least in the US, is a bit more “wild west” than I had once thought.
Incredibly so, compared to many other countries. I have a feeling it won’t be that way in 20 years.
