Flight simulator golden years

What happened with the bunch of new airplanes uploaded to Avsim and flightsim, planes that were not “study level” but that they filled with joy during so many years, leading to wonderful aircraft made by Carenado, Eaglesoft, and so on…

What happened with the panel and sound studio that allowed us to modify our planes and lead to community interactions and entertainment?

I am a private pilot and do know that sim gaming helps but will never be enough to take airplane controls, so this ideatic tendency of the “study-level” has slowed, in my opinion, the community interaction on what it is… a game, and the price we have paid after 4 years is a bunch of the same aircraft redone one and another time all over again, instead of having a bunch of new ones from where eventually emerge art pieces.

I hope Asobo and Microsoft don´t lose the scope on the way, and remember that what makes a game is the community creation, and in this sense, provide tools for the easy development of significant aspects such as airplanes, sounds, panels, and ground services. A good example of the results is the amazing tool they provide to develop sceneries.

Said that, and since in the model.cfg file can be found the option of “choose” an interior, it will be a nice feature to have, the chance to change passenger cabins, without having to change the cockpit. By doing this, developers can introduce different types of passenger cabins from traditional ones to private jets, and for sure it will be a new business line that I bet will make the whole community happy.

Lets see how far we can go with fs 2024, and see if we can reach another golden age through the community participation en more than one way.

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There are smaller dev studio’s doing new stuff. Look into GotFriends and FSReborn for example.
High quality stuff, but probably not something you’ve seen before.

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I’m with you. I miss the days from FSX, where I could load up Avsim, find an aircraft/livery, load it up and just fly without the worry of having to read a 400 page manual or watch 3 or 4 hours of YouTube content just to start the engines.

Sure, none of them were remotely study level, but I didn’t care, I just loved the freedom!

My go to used to be Erick Cantu’s 727 in any livery you like. :heart_eyes: 100% prime Gmax created.

This all said, don’t get me wrong I LOVE MSFS, it’s just a completely different animal compared to the past.

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First of all I disagree with the statement that FS can not bring you into the pilots seat. It did for me and I know others who did progress even further than me.
I did my first flight in a PA28-161, after a detailed walkaround with my CFI, I taxied out, I did the runup, I did the takeoff, flew the pattern and landed the aircraft. Without my CFI ever touching anything except for the door handle.
I have a couple thousand hours now in almost every Piper and Cessna single and twin and a few more interesting airplanes for good measure.

I for one love the features for example in the Comanche… with oil level to check and change. Spark plugs that can be fouled etc etc… because that belongs to flying as well.

However one of the greatest things with FS9 and FSX was the ability to modify aircraft a little to either suit my liking, get them a little closer to book values or change the panel to match a real airplane I have flown.
And I agree in some ways the possibilities of the current sim have forced the simpler aircraft out of the download sections because we have more or less become spoiled by the features and fidelity. If a plane looks like a FSX portover….we struggle flying it.

I had spent a great many happy hours with Manfred and his team on the Connies. And even though I still love them and keep FS9 and X around just for them, they simply do not really stack up against much of what has been released for MSFS.

One thing that I feel is just unnecessarily complicated is to change sounds in MSFS. I think I had 12-13 different soundsets for just the R3350. Some I had recorded myself and then shared with sound creators.
Now even on those aircraft where the configs are not locked, the whole file structure thing is just too complex. At least for me.
So I am now simply a consumer……

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Perspective is a funny thing.

I’d taken a massive break from flight simulators as a result of my life path and stumbled back into them with MSFS 2020.

Golden Age? This is my Golden Age with Flight Simulator.

I cannot wait for 2024 and what that will bring.

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Amen, brother.

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Came to share the same sentiment. What a time to be alive! :smiling_face:

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All of these aspects you mention are easily learned when you get the private pilot course in less than 10 hours, but in the contrary, you can spend hours learning how to fly the 737, and doesn´t matter how well you do it, it will never get even close to what flying even a Cessna is.

The whole point of my post is to reflect on the price we pay for something is will never get that real, because is a game, not a training program, as simple as that.

I’m not saying it will, but sitting in my friends Dof Reality chair flying in VR… Seems pretty close to me. I’m no pilot, but I have been up in a 172.

As others have said, FS2020 is my golden age. The others didn’t have VR so they’re not even worth comparing imo. They were just the steps taken to arrive here. I have little doubt 2024 will be another step foreward although I’m not expecting the same leap we got with the last generation.

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Personally I don‘t see it that way. First there are many free converted planes out there already. Obviously not as many as in FSX but that‘s also a question of time. Also many FSX planes had an extremely simplified and generic flight model, which more or less felt like you only changed the visuals, power and manouverability.
But on flightsim.to, sim-outhouse.com, restauravia.fr and a bunch of other sites you find many planes that are far from study level, fun to fly and free.

just a few I remember from the top of my head:

  • BD5-J Microjet
  • Boeing 707
  • Hawker Hunter
  • Stampe SV-4
  • A6M Zero
  • Hawker Hurricane
  • Bf109E
  • F-86 Sabre
  • DH.88
  • Fouga Magister
    There‘s a complete list somewhere here in the forum. I am sure someone will post it here.

Also many 3rd party payware devs provide different levels of realism, from almost 0 (i.e. CaptainSim) via medium (i.e. Carenado) to very high (i.e. A2A). And even with the highest realism setting, you can always adjust your realism settings if the plane is too complex for your liking.

Personally I also see this as the Golden Age. Never have been so continuously fixated on simming until MSFS2020 came around.

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Here is a link on the question, to what extend flight simming can prepare us to fly a commercial airliners:

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That was a cool post. He flew that simulator well.
Kinda funny that of the 128 comments, only 3 were not about sildenafil or tadalafil. :rofl:

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Having owned every iteration of MSFS since FS3 (with the exception of FSX), I somewhat empathise with the OP; however the unique characteristics and quirks of each aircraft really become apparent with the realism available in the current sim. One can still just ‘load and fly’, even in many of the more complex offerings. MSFS strikes a great balance for an enormously diverse audience. As NixonRedgrave said: this is certainly MY golden age of flight simming - MSFS is everything I wished FS2004 was 20 years ago!

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Yes and I still say you are wrong. Difference of opinion. Not going to waste my time arguing with you about an opinion.

Forgive me for I will be blunt. As a millenial who shared this boomer nostalgia of MSFS so-called “golden days”, I have to be fair to the current generation as well as the developers as to why things are the way they are right now.

I too, shared the frustration over the lack of “freeware vibrancy” in Flightsim.to. It must be noted, that I don’t necessarily say things are bad or bleak for this community, because in quality front, the improvements are extra massive over freeware past. Just look at the Japanese airport sceneries - none of FSX payware are as good and as complete. It is a proof that MSFS does attract new talents, while also reinforcing the notion that MSFS is just a fancified simulator on top of Bing maps.

I have known so many people who become real airline pilots starting with this hobby, and yes Microsoft Flight Simulator, all the way back from FS2002, FS9 (2004), or even FSX. It is easily done by accessing the more complex and higher fidelity modules like PMDG, Level-D, MadDog, or FSLabs. It helps a lot of them transition between propeller to jet, as well as the procedures.

The YouTuber 737NG driver | A330 driver is one of the famous examples.

In the past days, POSKY, IADG, EFG, AFG, Project Airbus, Project Tinmouse, Project Fokker, etc etc etc, that elitist attitude of Avsim community, the ever outdated website of Flightsim.com, the alternatives like Simviation and many others - things can go the way they were because nobody cares. But the world moves on. Do we still want to see sub-HD screenshots that you need to click to view in Avsim file library? Yes in the past, aircraft textures are approximation, but we have HDT and PBR textures. No “painter” needs to copy paste and manipulate tons of photos they extract from JetPhotos or Airliners.net

If the hobby stays that way, here is a better video game for those folks:

It has everything a desktop airliner pilots of that “hey day” wanted. You can even hear the flap motor from the cockpit! Folks who played MSFS back then wanted to hear them from the cockpit alright, since they always experience commercial flights from rear cabin economy class seats. Hint: you can’t hear them as well from the front cabin, and also, Boeing 737’s CFM does produce buzzsaw noise if you listen from the front rows.

Seriously, even gamers gets more and more immersion flying planes in ARMA, GTA, or Roblox. So what is in the word “simulator” anyway?

Today, the platform is getting ever more complex. I keep telling people how awesome it is to be able to get immersive soundsets from Blue Sky Star (BSS) Simulations for ToLiss A320 series. I didn’t get the same level of sound realism from real Level-D airliner simulator from the likes of RedBird or even Airbus themselves. It uses fmod compiled sound sets, it is nothing like mix and match soundsets of MSFS past, where you can edit sound.cfg, mix & match sound files that don’t even sound like the real thing (usually recorded outside the fence), let alone the quality. The .wav sample files are now only known for their huge size.

There is one thing I come back & forth, agreeing and disagreeing though. That is the “Virtual Cokpit” or “VC” or 3D cockpit. In the past you have weird off-putting bitmap picture, pasted into the screen and serve as a cockpit. Sometimes you get a cringey “photoreal” texture that doesn’t really improve anything beyond making myself looking like a harder wannabe pilots.

3D cockpit is a hassle I get it, flying is not panning around views with mouse and try to interact with cockpit objects through mouse controls. Even back in 2D eras, my real world pilot friends who are in this hobby since back in early 2000s complained about how much more cumbersome and difficult it is flying in MSFS than in real life. Turning a landing light is CTRL+L, a combination of button press or SHIFT+5 (usual toggle overhead panel shortcut key) and click on the sprite-like gauge animation pasted over the overhead panel bitmap texture. In his 737-200ADV, he just flick a flap that move several switches with his finger to get every landing lights on.

I am a private pilot and do know that sim gaming helps but will never be enough to take airplane controls, so this ideatic tendency of the “study-level” has slowed, in my opinion, the community interaction on what it is… a game, and the price we have paid after 4 years is a bunch of the same aircraft redone one and another time all over again, instead of having a bunch of new ones from where eventually emerge art pieces.

Freeware planes are dead, simply because it demands 3D cockpit these days. And they can’t be just eye-candy like the ones POSKY did for FS2002 and FS2004. It will all need to function properly. Plus, the flight dynamics need to be realistic these days, you can’t just slap “FDE file” from the default 777-300 or 737-400 and that’s it.

Unlike Jet-de-Go arcade games, the freeware planes of the MSFS past just fly like a rocketship into the sky, giving you every false impression of commercial jet flight.

I highly doubt that 9/11 hijackers even trained using FS2000. Those 2D panels don’t teach you anything on where to locate stuff you want to control.

Let me remind how things were back then:

Imagine this, but with prettier model made by the likes of HJG or POSKY, an A330 that “floats” over the runway, thanks to overedited FDE, and doesn’t even burn fuel correctly. It can even take-off while being laden beyond its MTOW.

The pretty model however, does make a good screenshot to be shared with unknowing friends and families.

Said that, and since in the model.cfg file can be found the option of “choose” an interior, it will be a nice feature to have, the chance to change passenger cabins, without having to change the cockpit. By doing this, developers can introduce different types of passenger cabins from traditional ones to private jets, and for sure it will be a new business line that I bet will make the whole community happy.

But then again, in Fenix A320, you have the EFB tablet, allowing you to control whether you want to show the cabin or not, surely it can be used to switch between cabin configurations. Why do we need to edit model.cfg? We are way past that era.

This however, just adds more complexity, which is a thing you complained in the first place?

My closing statement:
I would appeal more to the community, than Asobo or other developers that: a low-fidelity “models only” aircraft addon (or those FSX converts) has its own “target users” - there is absolutely no need for us to let them know how we feel about their lack of simulation depth on the comments section. If we have nothing good to say, let’s not tarry their turf. It is discouraging for some parts of the community, if the goal is to attract more into the freeware developer community in MSFS.

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Right here, right now are the golden years. Well, until FS2024 comes along I’m sure.

This piece of software is astounding. Is it perfect? No. It’s it the closest you’ve ever come to simulating flying on a home PC? Yes.

Rose tinted glasses sometimes mask just how good we have it in the present.

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The Golden Age of MY LIFE was in the times of FS4 until FS2004. But the Golden Age of Fligft Simulator is now

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100 % agree! I had a 20+ year break from simming, but now I’m wholeheartedly onboard again - to a point where the wife and kids are shaking their heads as I obsess over my new hobby :grin: But I thoroughly enjoy it and can’t wait to see what the future holds for us. Bring it on!

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I’m with you on that one. I stepped away from any type of flight sim back in the early 2000s. To me, flying over barren landscapes with nothing to see in between blocky, terrible looking airfields wasn’t enjoyable. I got what they were trying to do, but it just couldn’t hold my attention. Others may disagree, but I didn’t find that hardware technology was able to do justice to actual flight.

In the early 2000s, I remember having a long discussion with a non-techy friend who was a big FS98 fan telling him we were about 20 years out from having hardware that could give us a “true to life” experience, both in terms of physics and graphics. I was off by a couple of years, but MSFS certainly stepped up to the plate and delivered. As much as it’s imperfect and has some serious issues that are greatly detrimental to the way I (and others) use the sim, nothing like this has ever been done before.

And I believe that this is indeed the “golden age” of flight simulation. Up until MSFS 2020, flight sim had been a niche thing. A “dad / old guy” hobby that was out of reach of most people. Now, it’s available on every kid’s Xbox. Whether that’s a good or bad thing for the community is hotly debated. But it’s made flight sim profitable for MS, and means now we’re getting constant improvements to the software, new 3rd party controllers and software, and just general acceptance like never before. It’s never been a better time to be into flight sim.

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Exactly this.

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