Yes the layout and interactive features of flightsim.to are a huge improvement on the “traditional” file libraries, but they’re all still up and running after 28 years without any of flightsim.to’s lawyer’s attempts to keep your work even when you’ve asked them to remove it.
3 Likes
It will become my new go-to site 
Thanks for sharing.
2 Likes
No updates since 29th June 2022 and payware products only: not for me thanks!
1 Like
The FSX and P3D freeware part is recently updated - maybe the web editor did not see a need for MSFS freeware when FS.to had it all. Just guessing, but probably that will change now.
This is not the latest version of ToS. The latest proposed ToS is here » https://flightsim.to/legal/terms?v=23.02.2023 and point 4.6 is significantly changed.
11 Likes
Well, for me as a simple user, the misery has already begun: how the heck can I now keep track of all my addons? I have no idea which of my addons are now retired from flightsim.to and as such I would need to find the updates elsewhere. But then, how to find where?
7 Likes
Subject to the terms listed in 4.6.1, which could easily be added to or amended to flightsim.to’s further advantage at any time in the future. I have to wonder why they are really doing this, their professed altruism just don’t ring true to me.
2 Likes
Just like every other point. But I totally understand lost trust and don’t believe in the whole “let’s protect library users” priority. Maybe it was one of the reasons but traffic and SEO would be way higher on the priority list.
Thank you very much for this hint.
I hope, this may help to cool emotions a bit back down to get back into a reasonable state.. for both sides of the table.
Don´t get me wrong, i absolutely can understand most of the mentioned points and why they caused frustration and anger for devs. I am glad and happy for the service and work you guys are providing for the community!
On the other hand, i also love the service, one big site offers, to only have to check a single site to keep my loved addons updated and also check, if there are some new jewels to take a look at.
I just wished, you guys - devs and fs.to - could start talking with each other all together, looking for a good solution for both sides, also in the interest of the end-user, to keep one site, where to find all we are looking for, our updates and also interesting new addons.
It might be more promising to maybe have one person talking on each side. So dear devs, how about creating some kind of “union”, to speak “as one” for your side. This could make things easier, not having dozens of different conversations running.
It´s just a humble suggestion, hoping to see you guys in a good agreement soon.
4 Likes
This whole mess is really, really frustrating. It’s depressing that this passion we all share is at risk of losing an incredibly useful resource in FS.to. I understand that they mostly did it to themselves, and I hope they are taking a very open look at themselves and their ToS, and that a resolution is found so we can all move forward. It sounds like progress has been made, but I understand that trust does not come back overnight.
For my part as a consumer, I’m first making sure all the products I’ve downloaded are up to date. I hate living in fear that they could be deleted at any time - honest reasons are fine (and well within developer rights), but knee-jerk reactionary he said/she said motives are frustrating and only serve to hurt the community.
This whole debate has forced me to take a look at what I really value in these add-ons, and think of a short list of what I care most about. I’m frustrated that I probably should make a list of developers so that I can try to contact them should they remove their accounts from FS.to. Beyond that, I will have to slim down on add-ons because I simply don’t have the time to track numerous products across multiple sites. Again, it’s the community that ultimately suffers if this situation is not resolved.
7 Likes
It is exactly for this reason that NexusMods never caught on… There were complaints about the site right out of the gate.
And the reason Flightsim.to caught on… because they promised to never to monetize content, and, at the start, it was my understanding that they understood that the content they were providing was owned by the authors.
So to use NexusMods as an example, well, doesn’t work. And I’m no lawyer, but, to me, the language above does not limit how they might monetize content.
They could have said they reserve the right to monetize the site, or they reserve the right to advertise and make money to support the site, but, the original promise was they would have language to protect authors that their freeware always be free to downloaders and never be sold.
There are tons of examples in the past of this exact same reaction to this exact same situation over the last 30 years. It’s surprising they are hiding behind their lawyers rather than admitting they acted rashly and leaving it at that. Excuses for bad actions mean nothing. It doesn’t matter that they had reasons for their actions. They made a mistake. Rather than say “We made a mistake”, and leave it at that, they decided to say, “Well, oops, but we’re right”. “Well, we’re right, our lawyer laughed, and you guys are dumb, but, ok, we (kind of) hear you”.
This exact subject has been debated ad infintum for so long, I’m incredulous they could be surprised by the reaction. They should have realized they would get this reaction, and should have at the outset led with and supported those authors that did not want to deal with the change, and not reacted negatively towards them as if they were children who did not understand. As others have noted, they are free to run their business as they please. But in doing so, they will reap the consequences of their decisions. Sometimes it’s worth it, sometimes it’s not.
P.S. As a contributor myself, I could not care less that libraries I’ve used in my contributions would disappear on me. I used those libraries with the understanding that they were not mine, and it was a privilege to be able to use them, and that privilege could change at any moment.
1 Like
The latest Terms of Service is a giant step towards developers,
And offer major “protection” for users too (according to the original TOS until late 2022)
If they don’t change them again, my little boats , wires pylons and chairs can safely stay there ,
available for all PC user
17 Likes
I kinda meant someone from the comunity. someone passionate enough wont be corrupted by money. if all you want is a website for extra profit, then yes, history will likely repeat itself. ive seem money make smart peolpe do dumb things.
Im thinking torrents could be used. or have every developer host them themselves if they want and just link to it. If the files wont be all in one place, then the next best would be a roundup of where you can get them.
1 Like
Just a reminder, it was plain from the start fs.to had a business plan with monetization as the endgame.
I don’t have a problem with that (hosting, bandwidth, development++ isn’t cheap), and it was kind of fun watching it evolve from launch (and useful).
They’ve pretty much rolled it out predictably as it grew (ads, payware, restrictions, subs++), and it’s been interesting to see how they were going to innovate on monetizing, but I didn’t expect them to go Leroy Jenkins on IP rights. I guess Nexus Mods lit that fuse though, and they just thought “one in all in!”.
Big mistake to do the same thing as NM without being upfront and using a process to engage with the content producers to arrive at a mutually beneficial and equitable TOS. The content consumers also have rights, but it’s nothing without quality content to begin with.
7 Likes
I have no issues with them monetizing, or covering expenses.
I also do not see what they’re doing as theft.
But as a developer (29 add-ons on FSto, 18000 karma, 30.000 downloads), I have one issue with their new ToS: article 4.7.
Suppose I made a mistake, and I have infringed on copyright. They warn me or (worse) sue me, and I need to prevent any further distribution. Then I really need fs.to to remove (REMOVE, not hide, move elsewhere) my files. Or they merge / affiliate into a country that I really want nothing to do with, I want them to remove my files.
Now they can move it from my control under copyright into public domain. But that decision is mine and mine alone.
So, after some thought I think I will be deleting my files soon…
2 Likes
The UI is very basic (maybe even amateurish and archaic) ) and has its roots in an era where purpose was more important than ‘flash’.
So, yes, it doesn’t look great (imo) but like you I’m not too bothered about looks. As long as it has a good selection of mods, a decent download speed and has terms acceptable to content creators then that will do for me. ‘Flash’ is nice but content, ease of use and clarity of terms will always take the day for me.
On the other site I am constantly inundated with intrusive ads and payware stuff and have a download timer before I can even download anything. I understand why and accept it but as a User I wonder, to be honest, where it will all end. We now have a premium version so what next? It won’t stop there in my opinion. I think that there is more of this kind of stuff to come.
So, at the moment a simple download site with a few ads to pay the way for the admins and with protections for creators willl personally suit me fine.
2 Likes
In answer to your question: Not Here..
This appears to be a dispute between company owners and 3rd party devs.
..
And, it is “Their” decision to make. Period.
Although the business caters to the customers, in the end and after taking all of their customers needs and desires into the decision process (If “they” so choose to), it is and always shall be the company’s decision as to how to operate their company.
1 Like
Check out latest proposed TOS
2 Likes
Kind of reminds me of google, MS, apple, credit card company’s, banks and the list goes on and on.
Their Terms of Service is “Theirs” to create and apply.
…
It is like reading a software license agreement, in the end, you have to ignore everything and click I AGREE !
2 Likes
Good description 
Hopefully calm and rational heads will prevail over noisy Armaggedon conspiracy theorists 
5 Likes