After having encountered this problem in at least 3 to 4 products, I really feel the need to give some advice about basic physics as quite a few developers seem to be a bit decoupled from the physical world when it comes to implement basic functions. I encountered this problem in a 3rd party product first and now I have seen it in the Junkers F13 and in the Ryan NYP.
It is about implementation of the magnetical compass (or liquid compass or whiskey compass as it is also called). I have seen them painted as you would paint an ascending row of digits. Which although being inutitive at first is wrong for the magnetical compass. In short: The numbers have to be painted in reverse sequence, the larger ones to the left when you look at it.
Imagine a large drum before you (that is the compass cylinder you see in the plane) that has the heading painted on its (out)side wall and you would walk around it counter-clockwise. You’d expect the heading to get smaller, do you? Of course because you simulate a left turn by going around it counter-clockwise. Then why paint the higher numbers to the right? This way going around the drum the heading number that faces you would increase. So exactly the other way around.
I have noticed this on many occasions but as a non-pilot I just assumed it was variable with the plane type. Perhaps it is.
But I have done a lot of (two dimensional) yacht navigation in my lifetime, and the difference in marking of magnetic compasses is very notieable in this simulator. A seagoing compass is invariably marked as you have so well documented, as it should, because it in intuitive and logical.
Perhaps some real flyers could comment. Is there any reason why some aircraft magnetic compasses should be marked opposite to common sense?
Hello, I posted an explanation of this in another thread and it should apply here:
To follow up: The gyro of the DG is still mounted in the horizontal axis, but the card we read is geared and flipped vertically so we see it as a top-down view. However, the whiskey compass, as the OP says, is still mounted horizontally and we’re looking at it from the rear-end, so the adjacent numbers appear in reverse orientation.
Is not the seagoing compass viewable from above so you can see the far lubber line and not just the back end? Now imagine only looking at it from the back end, but mark the numbers with the reciprocals of the headings.
All understood. After too many years ashore I can’t remember if small boat compasses are marked at the front or back - I assumed at the back like our aircraft compasses, but maybe both exist, because the helmsman stands over the top of the thing.
Either way, it should be possible even in bad visual conditions, to know if one is heading to or away from a waypoint etc. In real life, a pilot probably becomes much more familiar with his regular aircraft than we humble armchaitr flyers; also, there is always the GPS map to confirm the issue.
Perhaps this thread could be merged with “Your current TOP 10 Aircraft”.
As a developer, I can give some context how this happens. In code, you don’t have the same physical constraints, so maybe you look at a few photos or just make an assumption. And even if you study reference photos, you can’t see the whole thing thing, just a small slice. It becomes a 50/50 chance you get it right the first time.
To be honest, I have made the same mistakes with the compass and other things like rudder pedals going the wrong way. The best thing to do is try to contact the dev and hope they can update it. We’re trying to make things realistic as much as we can but not everyone has the same real world experience that these things stand out the same way.
The problem is: Devs that hide behind Asobo/MS are hard to contact, the only way being zendesk where it is then also only put to discussion here. Also I hope some of them read it here so a mistake is not made in the first place instead of it being made, published and then needs a year to be fixed (especially if it is sold through the MP) if it is fixed at all and not just ignored because the number of sales has been reached.
It is just too late when it is already released because then in my eyes not only the product but also the developer is not of quality. There is really much free material out there of how a plane and its systems work and when making a plane for a simulator I expect the developer to take the time to do a basic research. I do not even talk about 100% accurate flight models (rather believable in my eyes) where a dev would indeed need real flight experience for.
That is why I posted it here instead of having to chase everyone of them when the error is out there. And if a certain plane type is released with the error than it is unlikely that another dev makes the type again because customers won’t buy twice. Also we do not know yet if the error in the Junkers and Ryan will be fixed at all.
Don’t worry, I listen to all feedback. I have to say that sometimes we have to deal with a lot of things and even a simple detail (which is very important here btw) can escape us, It must be said that on the Ryan, the appearance is unconventional, it is a very small mirror that reflects the magnetic compass heading. but the most important is to fix it. I will replace the texture and the animation tomorrow and send the new spirit of saint louis package for the SU12.
Thanks for your feedback.
Thank you very much. And I did not want to sound rude, don’t get me wrong but I went to try out these iconic planes like a little kid that has got a new bike for christmas and then…you know, this little detail came around and killed it for me like the wheels were missing
My throttle axis is a bit jittery and now I always have this sound effect of the throttle lever flickering around which is annoying, is there a way to deactivate this sound?
The sound is the only thing I don’t do, it’s microsoft that takes care of it, but you can mute it here :
sound/sound.xml/ open it, and add this on line 173 and 178:
I think that what’s being discussed here is the difference between a hand-bearing compass and a baseplate compass. At least that’s what they’re called outside the aviation world (I’m also a boater). I did just confirm my understanding with ChatGPT though … not that that guarantees accuracy.
A hand-bearing compass indicates the numbers on the side of the card, because it’s designed to be held up or mounted so that the eye looks “through” it… usually at natural features beyond it. A baseplate compass on the other hand is held or mounted so that the eye looks down at it… and usually the intent is for the holder (the person or vehicle) to rotate until the correct direction is chosen.
For instance, I can point a hand-bearing compass at a distant lighthouse and see quite accurately that it’s is at 312 degrees. The same task with a baseplate compass would be difficult.
I’m not expert on aircraft magnetic compasses (yet!), but ChatGPT says that they’re usually indicated like a hand-bearing compass with the number on the side and progressing to the left of N as the OP said.
You are absolutely right, of course, and after all these years a lot of developers didn’t realize that is a very bad thing for real pilots seeing such a wrong behavior of the whiskey compass! Great developers, such A1R and HCG Digital arts, and others that made a lot of beautiful models but with no interest in realism in the very thing of what the pilot has in front of him!
… not that that guarantees accuracy.